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306ps 931 Mittelmotor engine how?

 
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Dutch924-racer  



Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:04 am    Post subject: 306ps 931 Mittelmotor engine how? Reply with quote

Mittelmotor gets 306ps/ 392nm out of a 931/937 engine

http://www.mittelmotor.de/content/angebote/activenews_view.asp?articleID=28

I just took a close look at the pictures/ video's/ info on the engine:

2.0l
Pistons 8,2:1
Solid lifters
123 programmable ignition
KKK K26/6 (944 turbo with 924 no.6 hotside)
Cam ???
injectors ???
GTS style intake manifold, seems to have a larger throttle body
K-jetronic meteringhead/mass airflow meter form a 8 cylinder Mercedes???
the rest of it looks stock

I think most hp is gain with the turbo en k-jetronic upgrade.

Why nobody on the internet succeded in using a k-jetronic from a 8 cilinder car ?
_________________
937 trackday car
Series 2 engine
951S turbo and intercooler
937 DITC
Fast road camshaft
Forge recirculation valve + boost controller


Last edited by Dutch924-racer on Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1545
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Give Michael a call. He tells me he can get 400bhp out of their race car but tunes it back to 375bhp for the ADAC Nurburgring Classic last week. Check out the results, the 914/6 came 7th and the CGT/S came 8th, both first in their class

Fuel is now limiting factor with 928/Merc 8 cylinder metering head in getting more than 400bhp, 375bhp is safer for racing. Turbo is K26 #6 turbine but with bespoke compressor. Circa 1.4bar and a big FMIC

If I could rewind my engine rebuild, I would be sending them the cash for proven bhp results right away.
_________________
1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, CGT turbo, 951 ducted FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife LSD
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252
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Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11353
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 7:19 am    Post subject: Re: 306ps 931 Mittelmotor engine how? Reply with quote

Dutch924-racer wrote:
Why nobody on the internet succeded in using a k-jetronic from a 8 cilinder car ?


This has been done.
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Toofah King Bad
  • Shaggy (1980 931) - Got Boost?
  • Red (1987 924S) - Pro44/Spec944
  • Weiße Scheiße (1987 924S) - In Progress
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Dutch924-racer  



Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:02 am    Post subject: Re: 306ps 931 Mittelmotor engine how? Reply with quote

Rasta Monsta wrote:
Dutch924-racer wrote:
Why nobody on the internet succeded in using a k-jetronic from a 8 cilinder car ?


This has been done.


Rasta, do you have more info on that ?
_________________
937 trackday car
Series 2 engine
951S turbo and intercooler
937 DITC
Fast road camshaft
Forge recirculation valve + boost controller
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 7825
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isnt that new guy (Fasteddie313 ) running an 8cyl fuel dizzy ?
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Dutch924-racer  



Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

are you this, Fasteddie313 ?

https://youtu.be/cI7Z-D0VKNo

https://youtu.be/HURXiXxkNgs
_________________
937 trackday car
Series 2 engine
951S turbo and intercooler
937 DITC
Fast road camshaft
Forge recirculation valve + boost controller
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1542
Location: Not Detriot - NMI

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: 306ps 931 Mittelmotor engine how? Reply with quote

Dutch924-racer wrote:
Mittelmotor gets 306ps/ 392nm out of a 931/937 engine

http://www.mittelmotor.de/content/angebote/activenews_view.asp?articleID=28

I just took a close look at the pictures/ video's/ info on the engine:

2.0l
Pistons 8,2:1
Solid lifters
123 programmable ignition
KKK K26/6 (944 turbo with 924 no.6 hotside)
Cam ???
injectors ???
GTS style intake manifold, seems to have a larger throttle body
K-jetronic meteringhead/mass airflow meter form a 8 cylinder Mercedes???
the rest of it looks stock

I think most hp is gain with the turbo en k-jetronic upgrade.

Why nobody on the internet succeded in using a k-jetronic from a 8 cilinder car ?


Very similar to my setup..

Dutch924-racer wrote:
are you this, Fasteddie313 ?

https://youtu.be/cI7Z-D0VKNo

https://youtu.be/HURXiXxkNgs


Guilty..
_________________
1980 931S - LSD - FMIC - GTS fuel - hobby
95 M3 manual coupe - summer DD
06 X5 3.0 auto - winter DD
01 RS25 coupe - 90% Retired
06 MDX - bought for mom to DD
81 Rambler BBC 454
97 Tercel long retired/sitting
77 gs750 - 95 300ex - 89 blaster
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1542
Location: Not Detriot - NMI

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:54 am    Post subject: Re: 306ps 931 Mittelmotor engine how? Reply with quote

Mittelmotor gets 306ps/ 392nm out of a 931/937 engine
I want 1.5 Bar for sure,
but I'm not gonna lie and tell you I'm not greedy and won't turn it up more...



2.0l
Pistons 8,2:1
Solid lifters
I will run on the oem us S1 7.5:1 until it explodes
123 programmable ignition
I will be running megasquirt so I can also take over the ignition later when I want to, fuel first, then prolly boost control..
KKK K26/6 (944 turbo with 924 no.6 hotside)
931 turbocharger with the compressor from the 951 k26/6
In here somewhere.. http://924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=41250&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Cam ???
Slightly worn..
injectors ???
OEM 931 injectors are the same injectors porsche used on their gts cars with V8 sidtributors, siamesed, as my plan..
GTS style intake manifold, seems to have a larger throttle body
all original 931 S1 intake, maybe mess with the TB while adding a TPS
K-jetronic meteringhead/mass airflow meter form a 8 cylinder Mercedes???
Yep, from a Mercedes 560 V8..
It is actually CIS-E so it can be controlled much more precisely by electronics..
I will be controling the CIS-E distributor via Frankencis and megasquirt http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=41465&sid=d896f0a6a44c9aec81e67d62ca849ee0


I think most hp is gain with the turbo en k-jetronic upgrade.
With my FMIC and turbo it liked 1bar very much..
I think the FMIC is the most important, most beneficial mod that I have made or plan to make..
EVERY 931 NEEDS an intercooler!! They are begging..
You can use meth and up the boost a bit, but just adding a good intercooler feels like +10HP at stock boost touching nothing else..
It makes the entire intake amazingly cool to where you can put your face on it comfortably after a hard run vs before being able to fry bacon on the upper charge tube..
It just makes the whole engine sound and feel much more healthy..

#1 IC
#2 100psi system pressure and 1 Bar of boost (if 2664)
#3 bigger turbo - more fuel (efi or V8 FD) - more boost
#4 When do the internals pop?


Why nobody on the internet succeded in using a k-jetronic from a 8 cilinder car ?

Because they usually aren't insane like me and go with real EFI these days..





This is where my further engine related progress will go including the V8 distributor, and the supporting electronics, and there you can see the lineup of kit that is to hopefully go together..
It will be slow going..
http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?p=383148&sid=d7ac316cd9c4b2bb0d5bb50837e09a06
_________________
1980 931S - LSD - FMIC - GTS fuel - hobby
95 M3 manual coupe - summer DD
06 X5 3.0 auto - winter DD
01 RS25 coupe - 90% Retired
06 MDX - bought for mom to DD
81 Rambler BBC 454
97 Tercel long retired/sitting
77 gs750 - 95 300ex - 89 blaster
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1545
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other items missing off the Mittelmotor spec list is their CNC'd and upgraded hardwear head, Forged pistons and rods. All lightened and balanced.

Ultimately to breath more and be reliable to bigger boost and bang v's stock motor! Their motors appear to survive 24hrs of Nurburgring at 1.4bar and 375bhp. I want one!!
_________________
1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, CGT turbo, 951 ducted FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife LSD
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1542
Location: Not Detriot - NMI

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carrera RSR wrote:
The other items missing off the Mittelmotor spec list is their CNC'd and upgraded hardwear head, Forged pistons and rods. All lightened and balanced.

Ultimately to breath more and be reliable to bigger boost and bang v's stock motor! Their motors appear to survive 24hrs of Nurburgring at 1.4bar and 375bhp. I want one!!


Shurick reports..

Shurick wrote:
Fasteddie313 wrote:
That is sick!! great work

At 1.4 Bar/20psi you have to be getting around 300 crank hp you think? Maybe a bit more?

According to fuel/air consumption from EFI datalog it must be 320-330 hp.


So Mittelmotor heavy breather head and other mods are good for another +50HP at 1.4 Bar compared to Shurick's basically stock engine with a big turbo and EFI.. Also probably + a whole bunch of reliability..
_________________
1980 931S - LSD - FMIC - GTS fuel - hobby
95 M3 manual coupe - summer DD
06 X5 3.0 auto - winter DD
01 RS25 coupe - 90% Retired
06 MDX - bought for mom to DD
81 Rambler BBC 454
97 Tercel long retired/sitting
77 gs750 - 95 300ex - 89 blaster
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Dutch924-racer  



Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

also intresting to see they use a stock waterpump and radiator
_________________
937 trackday car
Series 2 engine
951S turbo and intercooler
937 DITC
Fast road camshaft
Forge recirculation valve + boost controller
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View user's profile Send private message
Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1545
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

396bhp from GTS spec motor, ancillaries, CiS, and a K26 #6 turbo running a custom compressor wheel

https://www.instagram.com/p/BRNet2jjGEj/
_________________
1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, CGT turbo, 951 ducted FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife LSD
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252
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