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Harhmless
Joined: 09 Sep 2015
Posts: 14
Location: Buffalo, NY
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 Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:45 am Post subject: Bought my first 931! |
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Hey guys!
So this weekend I made a bit of an impulse buy. I found a 1980 924 Turbo on craigslist advertised at $1500. It's a non runner, and definitely needs some love. The body isn't perfect, but pretty damn good! It's got 40xxx kilometers on it, and has had some recent work done.
What do you guys think? I ended up paying $1325 for it all said and done. Was it worth the money?
I'm sure you guys will be hearing more from me in weeks/months to come- I have a lottt of work to do as far as an engine and electrical work goes, and I don't know as much as I should!
http://imgur.com/xWOGW0m,a6SVwmv,eikejt5,7dOpsFS,GiUwKuq#4
http://imgur.com/xWOGW0m,a6SVwmv,eikejt5,7dOpsFS,GiUwKuq#0
http://imgur.com/xWOGW0m,a6SVwmv,eikejt5,7dOpsFS,GiUwKuq#1
http://imgur.com/xWOGW0m,a6SVwmv,eikejt5,7dOpsFS,GiUwKuq#2 |
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Fasteddie313
Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2596
Location: MI
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:56 am Post subject: |
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Score!! Awesome car!
Check that baby for a LSD rear end, trans code ends in /12, or lift the rear and turn the wheels method.. It is THE car to have LSD so likely it does, great option and valuable..
You have the high option wheels and 5-lug, very good stuff..
Let us know what's going on with that engine so we can help ya sort it out.
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80 Turbo - Slightly Modified |
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Harhmless
Joined: 09 Sep 2015
Posts: 14
Location: Buffalo, NY
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:25 am Post subject: |
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Hi Fasteddie!
Well she lasted about 25 minutes in the garage before I started tearing her down. First thing I found was a blown fuel pump relay- I'm finding that to be a very common problem.
This terror of this car was the electrical. Unfortunately it was all barn jobbed. (There was a straight wire-no fuse- running from the battery terminal to power the fan, and more stupidity like that.) What we believe has happened was that the alligator clip that they had grounding the fan's power slipped off while driving, stopping the fan, and causing the motor to overheat.
Long story short- We had a milkshake of coolant and oil in the head and a lot of coolant and metal shavings in the cylinders. |
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michaelodonnell123
Joined: 20 Mar 2015
Posts: 235
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Love that car in white. Nice find. Don't forget to check for a battery cover. Most of the time they are missing and when you wash the car or when it rains- water splashes on the battery causing all sorts of issues in that area.
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1988 Porsche 924S
2007 Jaguar XK
2012 Fiat 500 |
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Carrera RSR
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 2309
Location: Somerset, UK
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Fasteddie313 wrote: | Score!! Awesome car!
Check that baby for a LSD rear end, trans code ends in /12, or lift the rear and turn the wheels method.. It is THE car to have LSD so likely it does, great option and valuable..
You have the high option wheels and 5-lug, very good stuff..
Let us know what's going on with that engine so we can help ya sort it out.
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Having an LSD or not will be the least of his worries I think. No idea why US cars appear to have more LSD's than the Euro cars with the limited power you guys had?
_________________
1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252 |
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15548
Location: Spring Lake MI
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like a good car for the money. It will likely cost 2x to 4x that much to get it fully operational and reliable, but well worth it in my humble opinion.
Electrics can be a bit daunting to sort out, but the systems in these cars aren't so complicated. Once you dive into it, you'll see it's not so hard to sort out. I never understand why people are so lazy to do hack jobs like the heater wiring solution you describe. It's not really that difficult to fix it correctly!
Congrats on the acquisition, and you've found the best place in the world to come for help 
Don't be a stranger, would love to see your progress on getting this one road worthy again!
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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Fasteddie313
Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2596
Location: MI
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| Harhmless wrote: | First thing I found was a blown fuel pump relay- I'm finding that to be a very common problem.
for the fuel pump relay to work it has to receive a tachometer signal as a safety device to stop fuel pressure in the event of an accident, and also the FPR grounds to the overboost switch on your upper charge tube which kills fuel in the event of overboost to save your engine..
Either of those two things malfunctioning will stop the FPR from powering the fuel pumps..
This terror of this car was the electrical. Unfortunately it was all barn jobbed. (There was a straight wire-no fuse- running from the battery terminal to power the fan, and more stupidity like that.) What we believe has happened was that the alligator clip that they had grounding the fan's power slipped off while driving, stopping the fan, and causing the motor to overheat.
The radiator fans not functioning could have caused overheating in a slow traffic or long idle situation, there only really to keep it cool when you aren't moving fast enough to flow enough air through the RAD.
They should be wired through the thermofan switch at the back side top right of the RAD looking at it from the front, the switch closes when it comes up to the specified temp..
In OEM configuration there are a couple different circuits for them with one resisted circuit to run after the ignition is off.
The fans on these cars often get rewired by owners and POs.
Long story short- We had a milkshake of coolant and oil in the head and a lot of coolant and metal shavings in the cylinders.
OUCH!
Metal shavings in the cylinders is not good, I can only imagine them coming from the rings and bores and that means that it was run in that overheat condition long enough to cause real damage.
Water in your oil could also have damaged all the bearings in the lower end, also check the condition of your cam lobes and bucket surfaces they ride on, they are prone to wear on these cars anyway.. It is also possible that the turbo bearings could have been damaged by water in the oil but less likely I imagine.. |
It sounds like you are in for a total engine rebuild or replacement depending on the condition of your bores if they can be overbored enough to fix the damage, I'd also be concerned about the condition of your crank journals.
If you need a block and crank (short block) the NA 2.0 is the same and will be easier to get though the pistons will be of no use to a turbo engine, there are piston options from JE, Diamond, used 931, and some use VW beetle pistons known as "flat tops".
The head is 931 specific and let's just hope it is not warped and the cam journals are OK though it shouldn't be too hard to find a replacement head but $$.. Check that puppy for warpage with a straightedge using feeler gauges under it to see if there are any high/low spots..
Hook it up with some pics of the pistons, bores, and cam lobes etc. if you can for our viewing pleasure and so we can help asses the damage.
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80 Turbo - Slightly Modified |
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Harhmless
Joined: 09 Sep 2015
Posts: 14
Location: Buffalo, NY
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:14 am Post subject: |
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Hey guys! I took some pictures of the block and the electrical disaster so you could get a bit of an idea!
http://imgur.com/JlqXf1V,bJFM8dn,Q1nH7yT,YY2Famd
http://imgur.com/JlqXf1V,bJFM8dn,Q1nH7yT,YY2Famd#1
http://imgur.com/JlqXf1V,bJFM8dn,Q1nH7yT,YY2Famd#2
http://imgur.com/JlqXf1V,bJFM8dn,Q1nH7yT,YY2Famd#3
(White knob controls windshield wipers, doorbell controls ignition- No, you do not need the key to start it- YES, it is in fact powered with speaker wire.)
If anyone could give me a quick rundown on how to post a straight image as opposed to a URL that'd be awesome! |
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15548
Location: Spring Lake MI
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| Harhmless wrote: | | If anyone could give me a quick rundown on how to post a straight image as opposed to a URL that'd be awesome! |
From imgur, use the "BBCode" option. Just copy and paste the string in that little text box into your poste. Will look like this:
| Code: | | [img]http://i.imgur.com/JlqXf1V.jpg[/img] |
The result should look like this in your post:
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15548
Location: Spring Lake MI
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:38 am Post subject: |
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Damn imgur. No option for resizing!
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15548
Location: Spring Lake MI
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:41 am Post subject: |
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You can see valve hit damage, shrapnel damage, and scoring on cylinder four...
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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Fasteddie313
Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2596
Location: MI
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:44 am Post subject: |
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Did you drain the coolant system before you pulled the head?
Maybe that's where some of the debris came from.. Shop vac that water out of there or something and roll over the engine and look for damage to the bores..
It looks like that cyl on the left is "steam cleaned" from a HG leak on it for a while.. The valve impressions on the pistons may be old, not recent. You can see on the center cyls that the valve hit marks are well carboned over showing it ran after that happened. Your pistons may be ok to run still, check those bores for scrapes..
How do the head and valves look?
Also I'd throw rags over those turbo inlet/outlet, if something drops into it your turbo could be seriously damaged..
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80 Turbo - Slightly Modified |
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Harhmless
Joined: 09 Sep 2015
Posts: 14
Location: Buffalo, NY
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:50 am Post subject: |
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The We drained what we could, but all of the coolant that you see in the cylinders was sitting in there even after we drained it.
I have paperwork showing that the head was rebuild about 3 years ago (under 2000 kilometers), and it looks good to the eye. The only question we had about it was that the spark plug on cylinder 3 had a very bent finger.
We're guessing that the oil ring on cylinder 4 is broken, but I'll be able to confirm later tonight hopefully- The block is coming out tonight.
Our guess was that the imprints are old, but we're going to have the block and head both checked/cleaned/etc. |
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15548
Location: Spring Lake MI
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:59 am Post subject: |
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I would be highly suspicious of the head, and would not assume that it was properly rebuilt. If the valves hit the pistons at some point, it is possible / likely that the valve guides are loose, and you have no way to know that they were inspected, serviced, or properly repaired. You do not want a floating valve guide, trust me, I know. The head is off the car, I would strongly recommend a full disassembly and inspection to validate that the lifter bores aren't damaged, and that the valve guides are properly seated, and the stems and guides all within tolerance. At minimum, reassemble with a good lapping, if not full 3-angle job.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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Carrera RSR
Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 2309
Location: Somerset, UK
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:38 am Post subject: |
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#4 has blown at 5 o'clock that is for sure. Not so sure about #2 and 3 though. #2 is showing signs at 5 too, but looks like corrosion rather than blow through. Block needs refinishing regardless of what you do to the head for a good seal. Lots of corrosion spots which is never going to help the HG
_________________
1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252 |
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