924Board.org

[TravelDriveRace]

Hey guys, I'm a new member here and I've always wanted a 924 but I've always had too many other projects and it's never happened. Now, I'm planning a bit of a crazy road trip north of the Arctic Circle... in January and a 924 may be the car I choose for the task.

So my question is, has anyone had experience with running a 924 in extreme cold conditions? The trip is about 7000KM (4350 miles) and temps could be -50C (-58F). The averages are likely to be closer to -30C (-22F).

The plan is to have studded tires, a block heater and to remove the battery each night. Does anyone know if Canadian model 924s come with block heaters? Or do any 924s?

Anyone have experience with starting the car in the cold? How is the heater in the winter? I know most people probably don't winter drive their cars in the snow and ice, but I thought I'd ask. Are there any weak links in the car that would make such a journey inadvisable?

I could go the safer route and get a Celica or a Datsun 160J of a similar vintage, but I don't think they'd be quite as fun. I could also take my Impreza, but doing it in a more modern car seems lame.

In June, I did a 9000-KM (5600 mile) road trip across and around Canada along back roads in my '67 Volvo and now I need to do more!
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1967 Volvo Amazon rally car
1969 Lotus Elan restoration project
2000 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS daily driver

[ideola]

Welcome! Sounds like quite an adventure!

We have a good contingent of enthusiasts in Canada and several in Scandanavia, so hopefully they can chime in regarding the weather. Being from MI (until recently), I will share my brief observations, knowing that our cold isn't cold compared to the conditions you are contemplating!

Firstly, the 924 heater SUCKS, especially so in the 2.0L cars. You might consider using a 924S with the 2.5L engine, as it has a more robust HVAC system. Regardless of which platform you ultimately choose, you should consider swapping in the *warmest* range thermostat and temp switch (matched pair) to maximize cabin heat.

You may still find cabin heat inadequate to defrost/deice the windshield. If I were doing this trip, I would add a separately fused and relayed auxiliary fuse block with modern spade style fuses, and I would use that to put in a heavy duty circuit to provide power for an add-on cigarette lighter, which could be used to power an aux cabin heater, something like this:
http://www.carid.com/kats-heaters/auxiliary-interior-heater-mpn-37500.html

If you go with the 2.0L platform, you might consider buying this:
http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/ptd/5157893086.html
It's been for sale many times, and apparently never sold. Looks like an interesting device, and the only time I've ever seen one.

I would change the oil to full synthetic 10W40, possibly even 10W30. The motor will have an easier time turning over with synth oil in the severe cold, and you will benefit from the lower viscosity oil as well. When I was driving these cars year round, I would always switch to 10W40 in October, and it helped a lot with cold starting.

I would ensure that all of the weather seals (doors, windows, sunroof, rear hatch) were performing well, and ensuring the rain channels aren't blocked, and there are no leaks from the battery tray / bulkhead. Any moisture that gets into the car in that weather will make you miserable and cause the windows to ice regardless of how good your heater works! This is another reason to consider the 924S, as the door and hatch seals were improved fairly dramatically as compared to the early 924.

I've done multiple cross country trips in these cars, and I have always been fortunate to not have any major issues except on one trip, during which pre-arranged support crew came to our rescue. But the cars are more than capable of the distance you are planning. I did 4000+ from CA to MI, 4000+ mile round trip from MI to Big Bend National Park TX and back. 1600+ from Salt Lake City. 1200+ from Orlando to MI. And many multiple-hundred mile trips besides.

If I were attempting such a venture, I would replace the head gasket and do a complete top-end rebuild, as well as refreshing all of the hoses. I would also perform a thorough inspection of all the electrics, and replace the alternator and starter. Carry a spare alternator and starter solenoid.

And from this thread:

[Power Tryp]

Holy shit, I'm a little star struck here. I read about your cross Canada trip. Just to clarify, which Dave are you?

My 1980 924 turbo does have a block heater but as far as I know it was a dealership option and not a mandatory installation at the factory.

As for your other questions about heat and reliability in the cold, I can't say cause my car is a summer only ride.

Good luck with this and I hope you do choose the 924 as its a car that deserves good press.
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Melanie - 1980 931
NoName - 1980 931 (seeking rebuild)

Green tartan interior, you don't see that on a Civic.

[brealytrent]

Hi there!

For the most part, you'll find very little usage of these cars in winter so there isn't a ton of information, but I have driven in snow and cold (well, not that cold) with my n/a so I'll give my two cents:

The heaters in these cars do suck. With the very early cars, the engineers didn't think the passengers would like hot air blowing on their face apparently and heated air only comes out of the defrost and floor vents. I will say with some time and patience the interior will warm up, but I don't know about in -50C weather.

I once drove my 924 on a -7C day since my daily driver's throttle cable was frozen. The oil or grease within the speedometer must have turned into a solid as a gear chipped or broke, and now it ticks and jumps around a lot...so your speedometer may go and you'll just be dependent on the tachometer, knowing what rpms are whatever speed.

Some pros for the car: While some don't like the CIS injection system on the early cars, once cleaned and running properly the system is very reliable and will start in the cold temps no problem. A block heater and a warm battery will also make things better for sure. Also the handling characteristics are quite good in snow thanks to how skinny the early car tires are, and the 50/50 weight distribution.

I say go for it! If push comes to shove and the heater is the major problem, then perhaps you could install one of those old VW gas powered heaters?
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1977 Porsche 924 - sold
1980 Porsche 931 - sold
1984 Porsche 928 'S2' Euro - sold
2016 Ford Fiesta ST - sold
2009 Porsche Cayman

[Fasteddie313]

I would most like to see this done in the old underdog 2.0 NA 924. The older the better.
It is lacking in many areas compared to the newer more modern 924S as ideola pointed out but seems to be more your style coming from a 67 Volvo.
The 2.0 on CIS may be the more rock solid reliable platform (once sorted) compared to the 924S on motronic. It may also have a small advantage having a cable clutch that can not leak and go to the floor in cold weather.

Do I think this would be the best choice? I don't know, but I think from a viewers/readers perspective, me, it would make the strongest statement and is the car that really could use some good press..

I like your style, I also DD a 2.5RS but a 2001 5-speed coupe.

Good luck friend
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80 Turbo - Slightly Modified

[morghen]

I used my 924 in the winter just once, one full winter.
Was quite fun, had no problems...but it wasnt -50°C

1. If you want to do this in a 924, MAKE SURE YOU USE THE RIGHT OIL.
I think fully syntetic winter oil is the only way to go. If you use mineral, it will be too thick in the morning and it will just get spilled trough the seals instead of actually going up the engine. Take additional oil with you !!

2. You would have to use a very good 70amp battery.
I would modify the wiring so the battery sits inside the cabin, maybe passager foot space is enogh....so you can easily take it off and put it back.


3. You need to run winter fuel surely...but make sure the electrical circuit feeding the fuel pumps are in order and add a protection aluminium plate under the pump in case you run into deep snow and it gets full of ice. If you dont, there is the chance that ice and snow damage the pump wiring that is actually exposed.

4. You need to be sure that the CIS is set right and working properly in cold temps...use the car for a month every day before actually going on the trip.


5. I would also add an aluminium plate under the engine and under the gearbox for protection.

6. I find the heating sufficient even at -25°C, if you go on longer trips it will heat up nicely as its a small cabin.

7. make sure the wipers are in perfect condition...electrical circuit, motor..etc. Mine are slower during winter...so make sure yours work as they should before starting

This is a -25°C start
https://youtu.be/2Pm51LQJyp0

Maybe order these two DVDs

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Porsched-Limit-Dancing-Ice-DVD/dp/B00B9FPLZO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1439281899&sr=8-2&keywords=Porsche%27d+to+the+limit


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Porsched-limit-Conquering-Sahara-%C2%A3300/dp/B00B9FMGGQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1439281899&sr=8-1&keywords=Porsche%27d+to+the+limit
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Supercharger and EFI kits
https://www.the924.com

[TravelDriveRace]

Wow, so much excellent advice.

Firstly, on what type of 924 I'd want to use. The road that I'll be taking was finished in 1979, so I think I have to take something '79 or older. Driving this highway would have been a brave thing to do back then, and I want to try and capture that. I'll be going to look at a 79 later this week.

If you want to look it up, the plan is to go to Tuktoyuktuk, NWT. You can get as far as Inuvik on a gravel road, but the road currently ends there and you have to wait for the ice road to be frozen over in January to get the remaining 175 KM to Tuk.

That's an excellent list of preventative measures and tools to bring! Really appreciate that.

Power Tryp - I'm Dave Clark, the uhh, younger one haha. If anyone wants to know what we are on about, visit www.canada5000.ca and read about it there.

I'm not terribly concerned about the speedo/odometer breaking. On the rally I did in the Volvo, the speedo stopped working literally on the first day. So there was 8000 or so kilometers of driving without it. But I'd obviously prefer to have one.

It sounds like an auxiliary heater probably isn't a bad idea just as back up. I'm used to driving in -30C in the winter for week-long stretches and I've had many winter beaters over the years that never really warmed up, but I'd like for it to be at least somewhat comfortable.

I'll have to do more research on oil. In my winter drivers up here I usually run fully synthetic 5W30 and I've never had any problems. My Subaru starts everyday outside in the winter.

Keeping the battery inside is a good idea. I could definitely rewire it to be back in the hatch area so it is a bit warmer. I'll still have to remove it every night though.

That -25C start video is definitely re-assuring! And wow, someone has done something like this before. That's also very reassuring. Ordering!
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1967 Volvo Amazon rally car
1969 Lotus Elan restoration project
2000 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS daily driver

[Knz]

These cars have a rather low clearance... Do you plan on lifting the car to get better clearance?

I couldn't imagine trying to drive my 924 through any amount of snow, but this sounds like an interesting trek. I'll be following along.
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1980 931 (#185) for sale
1980 931 (#196) engine rebuild
1983 928S Project
1983 944 Summer Car
2002 BMW 525i Winter Car

[TravelDriveRace]

I don't think I would need any higher clearance than it has from the factory. I certainly wouldn't lower it though! From my home city, the highway is paved, then it turns to gravel. But it is well travelled and maintained as it is one of the few links to Canada's north. So there *shouldn't* be too many major snow drifts.

An aluminum or HDPE (cutting board material) skid plate is probably a wise idea for a little extra protection though. I nailed a rock in the Volvo that put a very deep dent in the fuel tank while on the worst, most remote road I'd ever been on. Luckily, it didn't puncture it. I might not be so lucky next time.
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1967 Volvo Amazon rally car
1969 Lotus Elan restoration project
2000 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS daily driver

[morghen]

I would relocate the battery at the feet of the passager as there is LOADS of space there and its very easy and confy to take off/put back on. The hatch seals could die in the cold and opening and closing an additional door is not something i'd like to do in your case.

Are you going to document this trip?
The 924 has been used in extreme conditions and extremely used in some harsh conditions. Those guys who did Shara and Siberia in a 924 are two, but the 924 has been succesfully rallyed in Australia in the hardest ever rally.
The whole coast of Australia in record time, no backup, no nothing. Get in and drive.

http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=39550&sid=acd0f6a12db2e8dd18580fef0eec9c94
_________________
Supercharger and EFI kits
https://www.the924.com

[Harm]

Gerhard Plattner and Rudi Lins had some great adventures back in the day…

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/deutschlands-top-200-folge-2-porsche-924-51194.html

http://flussigmagazine.com/1/post/2014/11/welt-rekord-inzuverlssigkeit.html

Cheers,
Harm.
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Porsche 924 NA 1982 LY7A/A3A3 _ Greater driving pleasure never harmed anyone.

[Brockoli]

Are you the Dave that was I was talking to last year about buying my 1979 924 Sebring? That guy had a Lotus too.....

That's a pretty cool trip. I had a friend do a similar trip in a BMW....
http://expeditionportal.com/inuvik-or-bust-to-the-end-of-the-earth-in-a-bmw-m-coupe/
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'80 924 M471,Wideband O2, Full coilover susp,23/19 sways,Bilstiens,KLA Strut Brace,Roll Bar,Test Pipe,BBS RS, Willwood BBK

25% of a '87 944 Chumpcar http://straightpipe.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=2454

'79 924 Sebring Edition(Sitting)

[TravelDriveRace]

Haha Brock, that's too funny. I just emailed you to see if you still had the Sebring for sale! Get back to me when you have the chance!
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1967 Volvo Amazon rally car
1969 Lotus Elan restoration project
2000 Subaru Impreza 2.5RS daily driver

[Shurick]

Used to drive 924, 924S and 931 in winter for a log time. But in central Russia you rarely see lower than -25*C. So bears even don't drink vodka at the streets, just walking.=)
Always used synthetic oil, good coolant and had no issues with heater. Good battery (even not new, but not dying) will serve pretty well up to -25 surely and up to -30 likely.
The only issue was with freezing door (and hatch) locks and seals. I resolved it with silicone spray on all seals and in locks after each car wash. By the way, usually I had door opening lever stuck in opened position, not lock cylinder freezing problem. Rear hatch latches are also tend to freeze because it's in they'r construction to pass water through the mechanism.

For cold starts in winter you can use electric heater in the cooling system - it really helps a lot and all northern states in Russia are using them widely.
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WBR, Shurick
'79 931 -- intercooled K26-3060-6.10 turbo @ 1.2 bar, EFI+EDIS, 951S brakes, stripped interior, 951 look.
'86 924S -- R.I.P.
https://www.instagram.com/ru_pacecar/

[Raceboy]

~10 or more years ago I used 924 NA as a daily driver. In winter, temps are usually between -15C to -35C, though with good oil, good thermostat and late heater (1981 and up) you will see no problems.

With such low temps, you should also pay attention to the wheel bearing grease and trans oil.
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'83 924 2.6 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 2.4S hotrod
'90 944 S2 Cabriolet
'78 924 Carrera GT replica
'84 928 S, sold
'91 944 S2, sold
'82 924S/931 "Gulf", sold
'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche