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My third 924 is a 931 restore thread
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Han Solo  



Joined: 11 Jul 2015
Posts: 234
Location: Lebanon TN

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ideola wrote:
I've used Witch Hunter on several sets of 931 injectors. However, the last time I tried to send them some, they said they were no longer doing the CIS stuff. I was getting about a 60% failure rate where injectors simply could not be made to flow evenly or consistently, even after multiple iterations of cleaning. FYI.

SpecialTAuto still advertises CIS injector cleaning, so they might be another resource in case you meet with the same results I did with WH.

I've not used SeaFoam before, so I can't comment as to its efficacy. I would recommend checking the AFM plate movement by hand to ensure it's moving freely.


I spoke to SpecialTAuto and he does appear to be the place for CIS cleaning. His recommendation was to have the cold start valve, fuel distributor and injectors all cleaned (or exchanged). He brought up a valid point in that if one just has the injectors cleaned and the other components upstream are not, one risks fouling the injectors again. Having everything cleaned or replaced at once is going to be really expensive. I'm also not completely comfortable pulling all that apart and getting back together correctly. My preference would be to do one component at a time and then test. It's a new system to me and I'll be cautious about ripping everything apart.
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Han Solo  



Joined: 11 Jul 2015
Posts: 234
Location: Lebanon TN

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:44 am    Post subject: Weekend recap Reply with quote

I spent some more time on the 931 over the weekend and progress was marginal. After running the engine earlier in the week with some Sea Foam in the crankcase, my first task was to change the oil and filter. Of course the plug on the pan didn't want to come off but there's a oil temp sensor nearby (aftermarket I believe) and that came out easily. The oil from the pan was definitely sluggy. After filling the case back up, I pulled the intake boot and confirmed that the AFM plate moved by hand, jumped the fuel pumps and started it up. The AFM plate moves well with throttle inputs so I think that's in order. After warming up I did a compression check. Lowest was 105 and highest 123 so that's not within specs but a least there is compression. While pulling the plugs for that, I noticed #1, #2 and #3 plugs were pretty dry. I suspect those injectors are running lean. #4 looked about right. So I think the next step in get this engine to run well is have the injectors cleaned. Next I moved to bleeding brakes but I found that the clutch master cylinder is leaking badly so until I replace that, the slave cylinder and clutch hose, there's no point trying to bleed brakes. Finally I moved to the windows and hatch glass with a heat gun and razor to get the window tint off. The hatch is problematic with the defroster lines but I'm carefully scraping around those and I'll have to get the remainder with a steamer later. The cam does sound better after getting some fresh oil so I'll wait before I adjust valves.
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-----HAIRY ANT NEST RACING-----
Collecting, racing and restoring Porsches for fun and negative cash flow.
-----Epic 914 race car build----- http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-914-914-6-technical-forum/767721-yet-another-rescue-porsche.html
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1556
Location: MI

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:55 am    Post subject: Re: Weekend recap Reply with quote

Han Solo wrote:
I spent some more time on the 931 over the weekend and progress was marginal. After running the engine earlier in the week with some Sea Foam in the crankcase, my first task was to change the oil and filter. Of course the plug on the pan didn't want to come off but there's a oil temp sensor nearby (aftermarket I believe) and that came out easily. The oil from the pan was definitely sluggy. After filling the case back up, I pulled the intake boot and confirmed that the AFM plate moved by hand, jumped the fuel pumps and started it up. The AFM plate moves well with throttle inputs so I think that's in order. After warming up I did a compression check. Lowest was 105 and highest 123 so that's not within specs but a least there is compression. While pulling the plugs for that, I noticed #1, #2 and #3 plugs were pretty dry. I suspect those injectors are running lean. #4 looked about right. So I think the next step in get this engine to run well is have the injectors cleaned. Next I moved to bleeding brakes but I found that the clutch master cylinder is leaking badly so until I replace that, the slave cylinder and clutch hose, there's no point trying to bleed brakes. Finally I moved to the windows and hatch glass with a heat gun and razor to get the window tint off. The hatch is problematic with the defroster lines but I'm carefully scraping around those and I'll have to get the remainder with a steamer later. The cam does sound better after getting some fresh oil so I'll wait before I adjust valves.


You could spray the injectors while there out by jumping the pumps and pushing the airplate to observe there cone patterns and flow equality by putting them in 4 separate identical sized/shaped pop bottles and compare there fluid levels..

Put some techron fuel system cleaner in the tank and run your injectors like that for a while to clean out the entire system, I'd go through a few sets of pop bottles worth of fuel doing that at minimum, maybe a couple rounds of 2 liter bottles +..

Have you done a proper CIS test yet?
I would not plan to replace any components until you give them a chance by running the system with clean fuel and techron for a while as I described with the injectors in bottles.

only then replace injectors after swapping them from line to line to see if its the injector or that line from the distributor flowing poorly..

After you have run a bunch of techron fuel through everything then decide what works and what doesn't by observing the injectors in action and doing a proper CIS test to see what is working and what is not.

I would attempt to clean the WUR myself if it's found to be problematic, if that fails then I would send it out..
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Han Solo  



Joined: 11 Jul 2015
Posts: 234
Location: Lebanon TN

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:02 am    Post subject: Re: Weekend recap Reply with quote

Fasteddie313 wrote:


You could spray the injectors while there out by jumping the pumps and pushing the airplate to observe there cone patterns and flow equality by putting them in 4 separate identical pop bottles..

Put some techron fuel system cleaner in the tank and run your injectors like that for a while to clean out the entire system, I'd go through a few sets of pop bottles worth of fuel doing that at minimum, maybe a couple rounds of 2 liter bottles +..

Have you done a proper CIS test yet?
I would not plan to replace any components until you give them a chance by running the system with clean fuel and techron for a while as I described with the injectors in bottles..


So pushing the airplate while cranking triggers the injectors (more fuel pressure) correct? I have not done a CIS test yet but my buddy just loaned me a complete set of 924 shop manuals so I've got no excuse not to
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-----HAIRY ANT NEST RACING-----
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-----Epic 914 race car build----- http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-914-914-6-technical-forum/767721-yet-another-rescue-porsche.html
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1556
Location: MI

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: Weekend recap Reply with quote

Han Solo wrote:


So pushing the airplate while cranking triggers the injectors (more fuel pressure) correct? I have not done a CIS test yet but my buddy just loaned me a complete set of 924 shop manuals so I've got no excuse not to


No not while cranking, Jump the fuel pumps.. The airplate is directly connected to slits that move more open on a piston in a cylinder, the more the airplate moves the more area of the slits are open therefore more fuel volume flow..

Let me see if I can drum up that cool video for you..

Do this..

Pull injectors, put them in pop bottles..
Drain tank + clean fuel + high concentration of techron fuel cleaner..
Jump 30-87 on the fuel pump relay to run the pumps..
Push/play with the air metering plate to spray the injectors, the father the plate is moved the more the injectors spray, that's how CIS works..
Fill up your pop bottles, discard bad fuel, put clean fuel back in tank, go through many sets of pop bottles to work the clean fuel and cleaner through the system..
I'd say if the injectors don't look good by 2-3 gallons of fuel through them then its time to worry, swap any bad injectors to other lines yo you know if its the injector or the line thats causing the problem.

Then do a proper CIS test after all the components in the system have had a good scrub from the techron..
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1556
Location: MI

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watch this. Hope you like retro..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4fJAfXYxWk


These previous explanations may be more detailed..

Fasteddie313 wrote:
I'd...

Pull the injectors, Put them in 4 identical pop bottles, jump 30-87 on fuel pump relay to run the pump, Techron in the gas tank, push the metering plate on the fuel distributor to make the injectors spray into your pop bottles..

Go ahead and fill up the pop bottles a couple times to get that Techron through the system, running it is good for it, give it a chance to clean its self up..

Then empty your bottles and fill them about half way with the injectors, compare there levels, the bottles should have equal amounts of gas in them and you should observe a nice cone pattern spray from the injectors.. And it makes very cool sounds.. EEEEEEeeekkkk...

The injectors should stop when your not pushing on the metering plate, a good base setting for the mixture screw is to go rich just until the injectors spray by themselves and then back until they stop while you have the fuel pump running with the metering plate at rest...

If all the injectors don't stop spraying at the same time the ones that continue to spray or dribble while the others are off need to be replaced as they are leaking, give them a chance by running with the techron first..

If your fuel in the tank is questionable maybe you should drain the tank and add fresh fuel first..

If you have access to a CIS fuel pressure testing kit by all means use it, as before run the system with techron for a while first to give it a chance to clean itself up..

If your car has lambda or an O2 sensor system you can then tune the mixture screw by monitoring the lambda frequency valve duty cycle with a dwell meter...

My car is a turbo so small things may differ, dont take my word for gold..


Fasteddie313 wrote:
Also...

Fuel pump grounds between the tail lights under the vertical carpet on a crown of male spades... Clean em all and under the crown to chassis..

Fuel pump power is a wire that runs under the drivers door sill plastic cap thing, I dont recall what color but I put a 3 way switch in it.
OFF - OEM WIRING - 12V+
So I can turn it off, straight battery power, or OEM circuitry.. I dont even have power to it anymore so its more like 2 offs and OEM power..

Clean all the fuses contacts, I used a drill bit by hand to clean the fuse terminals and buffed the fuses on my jeans.. I think thats what fixed my fuel pump actually..

Clean all the grounds you can find, add a new one to the alternator and to the engine block, and make sure the battery to chassis ground or wherever it goes is good..

Just replace all the braided cloth covered vacuum lines in one shot and any others that seem even questionable...

Clean all the sunroof drains out, they exit under the hood on the outside bottom corners of the windshield, and under the rear end of the car, white hoses.. Use weed whip string or something, compressed air could blow the lines off there ports in the roof and then the sky falls (or so I'm told)..

Clean out the under hood drains!! they exit through the firewall right in front of the battery and the same on the other side, Inspect this wet drain area for rust and leaks into the interior floorboards..

These are some other things I'd do to a "new to me" 924..

Google search...

site:924board.org SEARCHTERMS

Replacing the caps with your search, is a much better way of searching the site IMO..

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Han Solo  



Joined: 11 Jul 2015
Posts: 234
Location: Lebanon TN

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:59 am    Post subject: Gummy injectors Reply with quote

Last night I pulled the injectors and they were pretty gummed up. I got a bottle of Techron and put that in about 1/3 tank of fuel. I was able to get some of that residue in the neck of the injectors of with a soft toothbrush. Then I did the procedure described above with the injectors in the water bottles. Two were not doing very well but eventually, after running about a gallon of fuel, three of the four had decent spray patterns. I soaked the one with poor flow over night in fuel with Techron so maybe that will help. I'm going to have to get new copper seals so I might have to add a new injector to that order. I'll try them all again tonight to see if the soak helped. I also confirmed that the one injector was the problem by moving it from one hose to another and the poor flow followed it.

Fasteddie - Where's the exact location of the mixture screw?

Thanks!




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-----HAIRY ANT NEST RACING-----
Collecting, racing and restoring Porsches for fun and negative cash flow.
-----Epic 914 race car build----- http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-914-914-6-technical-forum/767721-yet-another-rescue-porsche.html
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
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Location: MI

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Han Solo  



Joined: 11 Jul 2015
Posts: 234
Location: Lebanon TN

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:41 am    Post subject: Parts Reply with quote

I ordered clutch master cylinder, slave cylinder and connecting hose from NewParts yesterday. Less than $200 with free shipping. Those guys are becoming my new favorite parts source. I also found new injectors on German Auto Parts for $61.09 each. At that price, I might as well replace all four of them! Unfortunately they don't have the injector seals. So far Automobile Atlanta is the only source for those.
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-----HAIRY ANT NEST RACING-----
Collecting, racing and restoring Porsches for fun and negative cash flow.
-----Epic 914 race car build----- http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-914-914-6-technical-forum/767721-yet-another-rescue-porsche.html
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Han Solo  



Joined: 11 Jul 2015
Posts: 234
Location: Lebanon TN

PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:41 pm    Post subject: Clutch hydraulics madness Reply with quote

This weekend was all about changing out the master, slave and high pressure hose. I had all three out and the new parts in fairly easily. However, when it came time to bleed, I just couldn't get the air out of the master cylinder with the Power Bleeder. I borrowed my buddy's bleeder that sucks the fluid but that didn't make any difference. I gave up after about three hours of trying everything I could thing of. This morning I decided to give it another try and I found fluid dripping from the frame rail in the same spot it was with the original master cylinder. So the re-built cylinder is no good. I picked up another at the auto parts store and swoped them out. I also let the rear of the car down with jack stands only on the front. I had to run another quart through with the Power Bleeder but finally did get pressure on the peddle. I adjusted the push rod on the master cylinder a bit longer and the peddle feels good. Confirmed the slave cylinder was pushing the fork by looking through the inspection hole. After that I mover to the brakes and bled the left rear. When I moved to the right front, there's no fluid moving through the bleeder. Same with the left front. So both front calipers may need re-build. I've had sticky calipers before that would "wake up" after a drive from heat from the pads. So I'll put that issue on the back burner for now. Next will be to install the replacement fuel injectors and get the motor running again. Perhaps then I can take the car for it's first test drive (carefully).


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-----HAIRY ANT NEST RACING-----
Collecting, racing and restoring Porsches for fun and negative cash flow.
-----Epic 914 race car build----- http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-914-914-6-technical-forum/767721-yet-another-rescue-porsche.html
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Han Solo  



Joined: 11 Jul 2015
Posts: 234
Location: Lebanon TN

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:20 am    Post subject: On the road Reply with quote

Good progress today. I got the two new injectors installed along with the two good original mid week. I was having really difficulty starting the car however.
It just wouldn't fire up using starter fluid, jumping the fuel pump circuit, etc. So I put the battery on a charger for a couple days and this morning it started right up. It does seem to be running better. Good idle and much more responsive to throttle input. So I decided to get it out on my road (which is rural) to test the clutch, transmission and brakes. The clutch is working great! Engaging at the right spot. The shifter seems a little sloppy but not too bad. All the gears are engaging nicely with no issues. I was cautious with the brakes, pumping and trying to get the front calipers to un-stick. Eventually the passenger side front brakes did start working. So I put the car back into the garage after a wash (hadn't even done that since bring it home). And bled the fronts. I'm still not getting any fluid out of the drivers side so that will need to be addressed. Also, I'm getting some whinning from the high pressure pump. I'm not sure if that's from the screen on the in-tank pump getting clogged or maybe when the battery starts getting pulled down. I know the alternator isn't charging the battery and I'm having to constantly re-charge. The noise typically doesn't begin till after several minutes of running the motor. I think I'll take the alternator to a re-build service locally that does outstanding work at a really good price. If the pump noise continues, then I'll drain the fuel tank and check the screen.
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-----Epic 914 race car build----- http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-914-914-6-technical-forum/767721-yet-another-rescue-porsche.html
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Han Solo  



Joined: 11 Jul 2015
Posts: 234
Location: Lebanon TN

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:29 am    Post subject: Brakes and wipers Reply with quote

Today I pulled the drivers front brake caliper to get it working. I dis-assembled the floating caliper from the bracket and put it in a vise. Squeezing on the piston forced fluid out the brake hose hole and the bleeder. Confident the piston was free, I put it back together and installed it on the hub. I noticed that while the brake hose was off, there was no brake fluid leaking out the loose end. I could see crud inside the hose so I got a thin wound guitar string and ran it up the hose. That did the trick! Fluid started dripping out and I got the hose back on the caliper. After bleeding I started the car up and went down the drive pumping the brakes to get those pistons moving better. I'm having fuel delivery issues again and I'll bet the fuel filter is clogging from junk in the tank. So I parked the car in the garage and decided to look at the windshield wipers. Those were non-functional when I got the car. So I pulled the wiper arms off and pulled the wiper motor after disconnecting the linkage. Bench testing the wiper motor and it comes to life with 12V applied to the connector blades. So I cleaned and lubricated the linkage, put the motor back in and wiper arms on. So I've got working wipers! Next I tried the windshield washer pump. It's wirling so I pulled the pick up tube out of the reservoir and put it in a glass of water. That tube is bubbling so I swop it to the other tube and the pump is drawing the water in and the nozzles actually have a nice spray. This is my fourth 924/944 and I don't know that I got the washers working on any of the others. These small victories make for a good day in my garage

This evening I'm searching for any info on Scobey Rogers III. Note the sticker that's on the air filter cover. If I can locate this mechanic, maybe I can get some service info on the car.


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-----HAIRY ANT NEST RACING-----
Collecting, racing and restoring Porsches for fun and negative cash flow.
-----Epic 914 race car build----- http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-914-914-6-technical-forum/767721-yet-another-rescue-porsche.html
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol
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Han Solo  



Joined: 11 Jul 2015
Posts: 234
Location: Lebanon TN

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:08 am    Post subject: battery tray renovation Reply with quote

I decided to repair the battery tray. It's letting water in even when I was the car. To do the metal work I needed to drop the air conditioner unit under the dash. So I pulled the glove box and trim piece under. That's when I found an after market alarm unit. I've read some horror stories about pulling those and not be able to start the car so although I cut a few wires, I'm keeping the unit and harness so if there's problems I can put it back in. There's a red and a green wire that run up the steering column so those are of concern. Then I dropped the AC unit down a few inches - just enough to get a body saw in to cut out the rust hole and not damage the unit. I then outlined the area to be cut out and went to work. I prepared the edges with a wire brush. Some of that metal was pretty thin but I've got a lot of experience dealing with that on my 914. Then I cut a patch out of 20g. cold rolled sheet metal and clamped it in. I use a flux core wire mig welder and tack the patch in. The key is to just weld small segments so the metal has time to cool. Otherwise you'll be burning through. After getting the patch welded in I noticed more problems around the battery clamp bolt. I cut another piece, drilled a hole through it and welded it in to strengthen that area. There's corrosion under that bolt bracket so after wire brushing the whole area and digging some seam sealer out along the edges, I prepare the tray with metal prep. That will stop the corrosion. Then I spread a thick coat of fiberglass, lay in the fabric and coat again. I already had a large piece of sheet metal slid in-between the AC unit and the work area to protect from welding slag and pushed in some shop towels to catch the fiber glass drips. The fiberglass set up really well and filled in all the depressions. I think this will be an good fix for quite some time as this car will probably not get exposed to rain or snow much, if ever.












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-----HAIRY ANT NEST RACING-----
Collecting, racing and restoring Porsches for fun and negative cash flow.
-----Epic 914 race car build----- http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-914-914-6-technical-forum/767721-yet-another-rescue-porsche.html
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Han Solo  



Joined: 11 Jul 2015
Posts: 234
Location: Lebanon TN

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 12:29 am    Post subject: Transaxle inspection Reply with quote

Still waiting on funds from a 914 parts car sale to apply to this project. I do have some fresh gear oil and decided to change that out. Of course the plugs are frozen so I took a wire brush to those areas and I'm soaking the plugs with PB Blaster. I cleaned the part number to see if this only has limited slip.



leadfoot wrote

"G31 lim slip serial ends with "/12"
located on the rib near the drain point underneath"

Ah, ha... I'm looking on the wrong side!
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Collecting, racing and restoring Porsches for fun and negative cash flow.
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