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Fasteddie313
Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2595
Location: MI
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 Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:19 pm Post subject: Source for braided stainless CIS line replacements.. -Pics |
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Did you guys know about this?
News Flash! SS Braided CIS Injector Fuel Line Supplier Found!
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/technical-q-sponsored-algar-ferrari/246349-news-flash-ss-braided-cis-injector-fuel-line-supplier-found.html
CIS specific extra thick tubing walls to avoid fuel pressure reverberation that causes lean out at high fuel flow rates..
I guess there are problems using normal 1mm wall thickness tubing, and also using fuel line with too big of an ID can also cause similar misfiring and leaning out problems from what the 911 guys say..
Braided stainless coverings too with correct end caps to keep away frays, or non braided if you so prefer.. They order the stuff from Germany, imagine that..
This stuff is rated working pressure of 90 bar, ridiculous pressure capability..
Prices seem very good actually with there Ferrari kits ranging from $60 to $175 shipped for 911's for complete, whole car, fuel line replacement braided kits.. Just replacing the plastic/nylon/polyamide parts of your fuel lines on there original barbs/terminations..
From : http://www.unobtainiumsupply.com/
UNOBTAINIUM SUPPLY CO.
What a cool business name..
They also are supposed to have any ends/fittings you may need too like banjo ends etc...
I searched a lot here and found squat, maybe this will help some of you out too, I for one will be taking some measurements and calling these guys...
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80 Turbo - Slightly Modified
Last edited by Fasteddie313 on Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:44 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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Fasteddie313
Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2595
Location: MI
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| Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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I had to register over there to get pics, not too many to be found but here you go..
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80 Turbo - Slightly Modified |
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KDJones2000
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Posts: 322
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI
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Fasteddie313
Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2595
Location: MI
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:39 am Post subject: |
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OEM fuel line measurements +
Large fender line..
COHNEN 313 0810 DIN 73378
1 meter - 2 ends
MIC OD 11mm
Medium size, smaller fender line (+ frequency valve return line?? Can't see numbers but OD by MIC is same)..
COHNEN 313 0608 DIN 73378 PA 12
1.5 meters - 4 ends
MIC OD 8MM
Small injector/WUR/freq feed lines..
COHNEN 314 0206 (can't find DIN)
3.5 meters - 16 ends
MIC OD 6.25mm
My car isnt up in the air right now, it's actually turn key ATM you believe that? Is there another one from the accumulator to the fuel line back there like the Ferrari's or no?
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80 Turbo - Slightly Modified
Last edited by Fasteddie313 on Wed Jul 08, 2015 1:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Fasteddie313
Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2595
Location: MI
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:58 am Post subject: |
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Do I strike you as a "non DIY-er"?? 
Special T seems a bit more pricy, $299+$160 core for a comparable delorean line replacement set but maybe that's because they make them for you.. VS $175 shipped for the most expensive 911 kit from unobtanium but they WILL NOT make them for you due to liability reasons.. I want to make them anyway and this route would probably mean a long turnaround time to ship him all my lines and then get them back in who knows how long....
Rasta's lines are from some oil filter place and are probably not CIS specific thick walls which could cause pressure reverberation problems at high flow rates, look like a larger ID which also may cause reverberation problems according to 911 guys, do not use the original fittings, not DIY, and probably more expensive.. He doesn't seem interested in providing information on them either..
I'm gearing up with my specs to call unobtanium to see what they have to say, I may call Special T too..
I'm mostly in need of the larger lines that run across the fender, there is a lot of evidence that my car has gotten very very hot with some PO (burnt hood foam, melted firewall rubber), the smaller of those 2 fender lines shows some bubbling on the side facing the engine and is making me paranoid, needs replacing ASAP maybe with just standard nylon line until I can get my hands on the goods to replace all of them in stainless braided..
I have come to the point to where I am comfortable dumping a bunch of money into my 931 to make little things correct (within my meager budget), it has proved itself worthy, even if I have an engine rebuild and G31 rebuild looming I will proceed, I will not be selling or parting the car so you all are stuck with me and my unorthodox ways for the long haul whether some of you like it or not.. (not specifically addressing anyone in particular)
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80 Turbo - Slightly Modified
Last edited by Fasteddie313 on Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:03 am Post subject: |
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| Fasteddie313 wrote: | | my unorthodox ways |
Orthodoxy is overrated. 
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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fiat22turbo
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 4040
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| Fasteddie313 wrote: | Rasta's lines are from some oil filter place and are probably not CIS specific thick walls which could cause pressure reverberation problems at high flow rates, look like a larger ID which also may cause reverberation problems according to 911 guys, do not use the original fittings, not DIY, and probably more expensive.. He doesn't seem interested in providing information on them either..
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http://www.ofsco.net/
Jebus dude. CALL THEM!
Maybe call Harbor Freight and order some damned jackstands before that. Just because you're trying to be frugal, doesn't mean you can't avoid a potentially fatal mistake BEFORE it happens. This isn't a joke and it is a serious concern and makes many of us hesitant to help you when you seem oblivious to valid concerns that have been pointed out over and over again.
Anyway, unlike the "special" plastic CIS hose covered in fabric, it is aerospace quality braided stainless steel over an extruded teflon inner hose. This teflon hose uses special teflon fittings.
Keep in mind the Ferrari, Lamborghini and even the 911 cars run at potentially much higher RPMs than our "lowly" 2.0L 4-cylinders and with many more cylinders to feed and longer hose runs. Reverberations generally occur from long runs of hose flopping around and soft hose that expands and contracts due to changes in fuel pressure. Use the proper teflon hose versus the generic rubber braided hose and you'll reduce that issue when combined with proper hose routing and bracing efforts.
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Stefan
1979 924 Carrera GTS (clone-ish)
1988 944 Turbo S (Silver Rose) |
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Fasteddie313
Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2595
Location: MI
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| fiat22turbo wrote: |
http://www.ofsco.net/
Jebus dude. CALL THEM!
No, thank you..
Maybe call Harbor Freight and order some damned jackstands before that. Just because you're trying to be frugal, doesn't mean you can't avoid a potentially fatal mistake BEFORE it happens.
Being frugal has nothing to do with me not using jackstands, my tools are worth 3X my 931 easy.. If I wanted jackstands, I'd have jackstands..
This isn't a joke and it is a serious concern and makes many of us hesitant to help you when you seem oblivious to valid concerns that have been pointed out over and over again.
I am not oblivious as to how to properly use blocks, I know how to break blocks and how to not break blocks..
When used correctly blocks are extremely stable when compared to jackstands, jackstands on a soft floor is a deathwish, jackstands are tippy/wiggly enough on cement much less ground that will settle.. And jackstands hurt your car and are not safe to use with a soft spacer..
I have 4 trailer houses, a 5th wheel, and a 30X40 2 story on cement blocks and none are broken, I have a car that's been sitting on blocks forever, the blocks are 6" sunk in the ground now and still not broken, I just sold another camper and put it on blocks level for the guy on location too..
I have never ever had a block break when setting a load on it or from a load sitting on it over time, this is either a myth, urban legend, or stories of idiots doing what idiots do best..
But I am growing very tired of being flamed for using blocks every time I turn around because of this myth, I'm going to look into cutting some large wood blocks or maybe get some 20" sections of 18" I beam or something from the junkyard, I will not be switching to jackstands especially ones from china, I do not like jackstands one bit..
Anyway, unlike the "special" plastic CIS hose covered in fabric,
Polyamide nylon 2mm wall thickness + braided stainless covering good to 90 Bar
it is aerospace quality braided stainless steel over an extruded teflon inner hose. This teflon hose uses special teflon fittings.
Special fittings, not our OEM fittings designed for polyamide nylon lines.
Keep in mind the Ferrari, Lamborghini and even the 911 cars run at potentially much higher RPMs than our "lowly" 2.0L 4-cylinders and with many more cylinders to feed and longer hose runs.
I do not plan to run a "lowly" 2.0, it does not matter how many injectors there are but rather max flow per injector/line and run length, injection being Constant I don't see how RPM matters, I do agree that the 931 runs are quite short thereby minimizing this problem if not eliminating, if there really even is a problem other than a myth which seems arguable either way..
Reverberations generally occur from long runs of hose flopping around and soft hose that expands and contracts due to changes in fuel pressure. Use the proper teflon hose Proper would be polyamide nylon, concourse proper actually versus the generic rubber braided hose Who said rubber hose? and you'll reduce that issue when combined with proper hose routing and bracing efforts.
Lets face it, polyamide nylon lines are THE PROPER way of replacing CIS fuel lines, that's why Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche concours cars use them and those that care about max performance over originality use polyamide nylon lines with braided stainless coverings, even money no object cars, also in the correct small ID and large wall thickness to avoid supposid reverberation problems, right on the unmolested OEM fittings/terminations...
How is this even an argument?
Polyamide nylon lines are very likely cheaper, actually quite affordable, likely better/rated to working at 90 Bar which is way more than plenty by over 10X, concourse correct without braided coverings, are CORRECT for the OEM fittings with no welding on adaptors nothing just press it on, easy to DIY, what more could you ask for? |
BTW Special T's replacement lines look like the same stuff unobtanium has..
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jason c
Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Posts: 1018
Location: Nwi
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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On the blocks...
While I wouldn't choose some of Eddie's methods for myself, I think his block setup is actually the correct way for his situation. This is the wrong orientation for building a house but the blocks are plenty strong as long as the pressure is on the web & not on the cell (hollow areas). They are better on their sides if they're on the ground because the open area standing up may sink while the flat area on the dirt will act as a footer.
Yes they are more crush resistant but the weight of the car is nowhere close to enough to break them.
In addition to cars, I have a construction background. I worked construction when I got out of high school & eventually had my own business for awhile.
On the Jack stands....
I've used "Chinese" ones before, they are fine, I have no problems with them design is key though.
Jack stands on dirt is a BAD idea. They will sink & you will have a problem. The only way it would be possible is to have a thick, preferably steel, plate (at least a foot square) to use as a footer. I would also probably bolt the jackstand to the plate.
On to the fuel lines...
Rastas lines look nice. I'm sure with all his track driving, if there was a flaw, he would have found it already. The track brings out the weakness in everything!
The original lines for the 931 were the rubber covered. The rubber covering is for abrasion & to act as a heat shield to to the higher under hood temps the turbo creates.
These lines are NLA from Porsche & coline.
I had belmetric order the last little hidden batch of line cohline had. I bought a bunch & they kept some. They likely still have it. Call Matt at Belmetric if you want the o.e. stuff. |
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Fasteddie313
Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2595
Location: MI
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:40 am Post subject: |
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Unobtanium had cohline in stock, most of it...
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Here are the line sizes I stock. Note that the 365 p/n prefix has been superseded by 3011.
Also, the 365.0206 line is NLA, has been superseded by 3011.3106.
Part Number
Description
Price /Unit
3011.0305
Fuel Line: OD: 5mm ID: 3mm, 1 meter
$4.40
3011.3106
Fuel Line: OD: 6mm ID: 3.14mm, 1 meter
$16.92
3011.0608
Fuel Line: OD: 8mm ID: 6mm, 1 meter
$6.32
3011.01.0608
SS Braided Fuel Line: OD: 9mm ID: 6mm, 1 meter
$16.50
7001.1052
24mm long metal sleeve for 3011.10.0608
$3.85
3011.01.0206
SS Braided Fuel Line: OD: 7mm ID: 2mm, 1 meter
$16.92
7001.0851
17mm long metal sleeve for 3011.10.0206
$3.45
The line is sold by the meter so please send the line p/n & length in even meters that you need. I recommend an extra meter of each line size to allow for making a mistake or 2 when cutting length or inserting the barbs.
I don’t stock the 3011.0810 (formerly 313 0810) line. I can special order it, but only in 20 meter rolls which is what you’d have to buy. I asked around and have located 2 meters of the 3011.0810 line. Price: $14.47/meter. Will take me 3-4 days to get it.
""""""""""""""""""""
I have asked for the 2 meters of 0810 line (large line across fender) so I will have extra, maybe enough for 2 more cars if anyone wants some when I'm done replacing mine..
As for the rubber line covering the cohline on our cars I'm sure you could choose any style of hose you want to slide over your cohline for abrasion/heat resistance.. The 0810 line is not available in braided stainless as it was never produced in this style according to unobtanium..
BTW yes I'm sure rasta's line works and looks just fine but I would rather go with the stuff that fits directly on our fittings so they don't have to be modified..
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80 Turbo - Slightly Modified |
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11733
Location: PacNW
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:04 am Post subject: |
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| Fasteddie313 wrote: | | Rasta's lines are from some oil filter place and are probably not CIS specific thick walls which could cause pressure reverberation problems at high flow rates, look like a larger ID which also may cause reverberation problems according to 911 guys, do not use the original fittings, not DIY, and probably more expensive.. He doesn't seem interested in providing information on them either |
LOLOLOLOLOL
As Stefan told you (about 16 minutes after you asked), they were custom fabbed by a place here called Oil Filter Service. They are our local Aeroquip dealer and specialize in fabrication and repair of hydraulic, oil, fuel, and air lines.
Sharp eye on the "non CIS specific wall thickness" and ID though. Pure genius!
P.S. Forget the jackstands. . .you need to invest in a fire extinguisher.
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Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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Fasteddie313
Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2595
Location: MI
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:03 am Post subject: |
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Whatever, you guys can just keep bashing my every move and ruining my threads, I don't care..
Your lines are still inferior in every way VS the correct replacements any way you shake it. They ruin the OEM fittings, can't DIY, incorrect ID at least, and very likely double the cost.. Reverberation or not it's easier and better to do it the right way..
All you ever do is point out my faults, now it's my turn.
Even when I compliment your work you're too good to reply to me unless you have something cocky to say to try to make me look stupid.
From my very first thread here you recommend me to rebuild my entire engine with custom pistons because my turbo was smoking and laughed at me when I asked a simple question..
I can think off the top of my head many cases where this is true (can produce evidence) and can think of none where you are helpful especially without some alternative motive like calling me OCD or something.
How about where you told some fresh new 931 owner his car looked like shit? Of Course you were being sarcastic as your car is the same but do you think that guy even had a chance to know that? Absolutely not..
Bad form rasta..
Yeah I'm young (24), inexperienced, and imaginative but you don't have to prey on me to get your sick kicks.. You're just scared because my car is about to eclipse yours in performance at much less cost and everything DIY, built not bought..
I put a metric shit ton of work into my car almost every day and that should deserve some respect even if everything's not perfect and the best/most expensive possible way of doing things..
And I can't wait to go "kill Hondas".. If you all don't like that either too bad..
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80 Turbo - Slightly Modified
Last edited by Fasteddie313 on Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Fasteddie313
Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2595
Location: MI
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:06 am Post subject: |
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Oh and BTW.. I have very nice 2.5 gallon full stainless DIY refillable with whatever you want fire extinguishers, just fill em up and hit em with 100psi...
Ooh gasoline so scary...
Matter of fact let's compare actual statistics and find out if your lines are superior or even equal on any level...
The only thing you may have is a higher working pressure rating but that's unlikely and would be negligible due to so much overkill.. VS 90 bar go..
And the only other unknown variable yet is cost, I feel it is very unlikely your lines can be had at a similar price much less cheaper..
Non response, telling to search or call (you should know there yours), or failing to provide data in any way will be assumed as a loss..
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Fifty50Plus
Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 1422
Location: Washington DC area
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| Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Rasta, you owe the dude an apology.
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1979 924 NA race car H-Prod SCCA
1982 924 NA race car - Sold
1981 924 Turbo sold
1982 924 Turbo sold
1972 911 E race car - traded for Cayenne Diesel
1975 914 1.8 Building for H-Prod SCCA |
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