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Knz  



Joined: 05 Mar 2014
Posts: 105
Location: Sparrow Bush, NY

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info, that was what I was looking for.

The way the car is set up right now, the in tank pump was broken off so that only the part that screws into the gas tank remains. This does not work well at all. While I can get the car to start and run, it will not idle, and slowly dies if I do not keep giving it gas. I'm not sure if its solely due to the lack of an in-tank fuel pump, but it's the first variable I can eliminate.

I guess I will have to go back to the drawing board for fuel delivery..

Would the 944 pump feeding the 924 pump not provide too much fuel to the 924 pump?

I'll have to look up the specs on the in tank pump, maybe I can find an external pump with similar specs to feed the 924 pump...

The 944s, from what I've read, have an in-tank strainer, and a single external pump, that on post 85.5 cars delivers 1700 ml/min...

Also, how the h*ll do I get the timing belt cover off? do I need to remove the pulley off the water pump / remove the water pump just to get at the timing belt? Haynes just says to take it off... Am I missing something?
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1980 931 (#185) for sale
1980 931 (#196) engine rebuild
1983 928S Project
1983 944 Summer Car
2002 BMW 525i Winter Car
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15499
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You really should try to find a working internal pump. They're not cheap new, and hard to find in good used condition. But the CIS system really needs to have the internal pump to prime the high pressure external pump.

As for the timing belt cover, there are three bolts that hold it on, two on either side of the head up top, and one way down by the crank pulley. It's exceedingly difficult to get to with the water pump pulley on, which can easily be removed by the three bolts on its front face.
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15 981 GTS | 88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 82 931 Rallye | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1549
Location: Not Detriot - NMI

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Knz wrote:
Thanks for the info, that was what I was looking for.

The way the car is set up right now, the in tank pump was broken off so that only the part that screws into the gas tank remains. This does not work well at all. While I can get the car to start and run, it will not idle, and slowly dies if I do not keep giving it gas. I'm not sure if its solely due to the lack of an in-tank fuel pump, but it's the first variable I can eliminate.
Lack of an intank pump would cause problems with very low gas in the tank and/or at WOT in high rpms, I don't think it would effect idle much unless your inline pump isnt even picking up fuel

I guess I will have to go back to the drawing board for fuel delivery..

Would the 944 pump feeding the 924 pump not provide too much fuel to the 924 pump?
I have scene recommended running 2 CIS inline pumps in series in attempt to push fueling to its limits, I don't think pushing more to the inline pump would be a problem but it would be good to test your system pressure before and after to see if it changed anything and adjust if it has, if needed..

I'll have to look up the specs on the in tank pump, maybe I can find an external pump with similar specs to feed the 924 pump...
Intank pump is only something like 3-5 psi or close iirc, an electric pump made for a carbureted car would probably do..

The 944s, from what I've read, have an in-tank strainer, and a single external pump, that on post 85.5 cars delivers 1700 ml/min...

Also, how the h*ll do I get the timing belt cover off? do I need to remove the pulley off the water pump / remove the water pump just to get at the timing belt? Haynes just says to take it off... Am I missing something?
I think you have to pull the airbox and move the fuel distributor a bit, and a radiator pipe mount, its not so simple as just take it off in my experience, that's why it didn't go back on..

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1980 931S - LSD - FMIC - GTS fuel - hobby
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06 X5 3.0 auto - winter DD
01 RS25 coupe - 90% Retired
06 MDX - bought for mom to DD
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1549
Location: Not Detriot - NMI

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ideola wrote:
You really should try to find a working internal pump.


For a 944 tank?
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1980 931S - LSD - FMIC - GTS fuel - hobby
95 M3 manual coupe - summer DD
06 X5 3.0 auto - winter DD
01 RS25 coupe - 90% Retired
06 MDX - bought for mom to DD
81 Rambler BBC 454
97 Tercel long retired/sitting
77 gs750 - 95 300ex - 89 blaster
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Knz  



Joined: 05 Mar 2014
Posts: 105
Location: Sparrow Bush, NY

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried buying an internal pup on eBay 3 times now. Each time they cancelled my order and said it was out of stock... I guess I could get it from Pelican, but $450 is a bit exorbitant...

I am planning to switch to the plastic 944 tank, I wonder if the fuel strainer has the same threading as the in-tank pump for the 924... that would be too convenient. Otherwise I would have mod the plastic tank to accept the in-tank pump, or just go with two external pumps... I guess I'll figure that out as I get to it.

I guess I will just replace the water pump while I'm getting to the timing belt. I was just wondering if there was some trick to get it off with out taking the water pump pulley off.
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1980 931 (#185) for sale
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Knz  



Joined: 05 Mar 2014
Posts: 105
Location: Sparrow Bush, NY

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fasteddie, I guess its a two-fold issue then, I've only been troubleshooting the car, and I only have a few gallons of gas in the tank. I guess that is why I'm having trouble at idle.

I'll fill the tank after I get this timing belt sorted. I took the air box out, and I pulled the alternator and A/C belts, this cover is just a PITA, I may not put it back either.
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1980 931 (#185) for sale
1980 931 (#196) engine rebuild
1983 928S Project
1983 944 Summer Car
2002 BMW 525i Winter Car
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15499
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clarification: internal pump for a 924. There is no internal pump for the 944.

The threads are the same, so the internal pump and the 944 sock filter setup are interchangeable. I just confirmed this on a 931 fuel tank last week.
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15 981 GTS | 88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 82 931 Rallye | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini
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Knz  



Joined: 05 Mar 2014
Posts: 105
Location: Sparrow Bush, NY

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ideola wrote:
Clarification: internal pump for a 924. There is no internal pump for the 944.

The threads are the same, so the internal pump and the 944 sock filter setup are interchangeable. I just confirmed this on a 931 fuel tank last week.


That is awesome actually. I guess some things are convenient... I'll have to see if I can track down an in-tank pump for any reasonable amount before having to go new with Pelican..
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1980 931 (#185) for sale
1980 931 (#196) engine rebuild
1983 928S Project
1983 944 Summer Car
2002 BMW 525i Winter Car
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1549
Location: Not Detriot - NMI

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may entertain trading my working 924 intank pump for that 944 pump setup with intank screen and the 944 lines to and from the pump (to replace my 924 intank pump)

+ maybe some smalls off your 944 roller? Whatever is fair(ish), I don't want $400 value for my pump, but the 944 pump is like $30 brand new..

What color is your interior? I could use some clips and silly things..

The way my fuel pumps and system pressure is already customized a slight change in system pressure would be of no consequence to me and I wouldn't mind force feeding my 924 inline pump a bit more for more headroom if needed later on..
_________________
1980 931S - LSD - FMIC - GTS fuel - hobby
95 M3 manual coupe - summer DD
06 X5 3.0 auto - winter DD
01 RS25 coupe - 90% Retired
06 MDX - bought for mom to DD
81 Rambler BBC 454
97 Tercel long retired/sitting
77 gs750 - 95 300ex - 89 blaster
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Knz  



Joined: 05 Mar 2014
Posts: 105
Location: Sparrow Bush, NY

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fasteddie313 wrote:
I may entertain trading my working 924 intank pump for that 944 pump setup with intank screen and the 944 lines to and from the pump (to replace my 924 intank pump)

+ maybe some smalls off your 944 roller? Whatever is fair(ish), I don't want $400 value for my pump, but the 944 pump is like $30 brand new..

What color is your interior? I could use some clips and silly things..

The way my fuel pumps and system pressure is already customized a slight change in system pressure would be of no consequence to me and I wouldn't mind force feeding my 924 inline pump a bit more for more headroom if needed later on..



sending PM
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1980 931 (#185) for sale
1980 931 (#196) engine rebuild
1983 928S Project
1983 944 Summer Car
2002 BMW 525i Winter Car
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v8carreragts  



Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 665
Location: Tucson, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an early 944 tank (the car started out as an 84 944) with the 924 in tank pump and a 930 external pump. This feeds the FI on my small block.

I seem to remember seeing a replacement pump for the in tank pump assembly. I can't remember where at the moment.
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Knz  



Joined: 05 Mar 2014
Posts: 105
Location: Sparrow Bush, NY

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pulled the water pump last night to find heavy rust everywhere in the coolant system... this is no bueno. Looks like surface rust, but it also looks to be spread through all of the exposed metal of the lower coolant system. I'm not sure how bad it really is. I hope its not terminal.

I am thinking of running some sort of dilute acid through the coolant system, I was thinking about running a reducing agent through, but I don't know if I want to be doing that kind of chemistry inside my engine... I have access to a good amount of different acids of different strengths, and I'm able to make accurate dilutions. I've heard of people running dilute (30%) vinegar or dilute citric acid solutions, but would this really be effective? I mean a 30% vinegar solution is only a 1.5% acetic acid solution.

Is there anything I should try or am I overthinking this?
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1980 931 (#185) for sale
1980 931 (#196) engine rebuild
1983 928S Project
1983 944 Summer Car
2002 BMW 525i Winter Car
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Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11354
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used CLR to defoul the heater core on my Cherokee, worked well.

Fwiw, hanging a G31 gearbox from the late 944 cross member will be no small task.
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fiat22turbo  



Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 4040
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rasta Monsta wrote:
Fwiw, hanging a G31 gearbox from the late 944 cross member will be no small task.


Yep. However the aluminum trailing arms transfer over and you can use the 944's larger torsion bars to help stiffen the rear end a bit (or use a set of aftermarket bars if you want to go a little further).

Just be aware of the change in offset as you may need 924S rear hubs and rotors to fit it all under the 931 fenders.
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1979 924 Carrera GTS (clone-ish)
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15499
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couple minor points of clarification on the alu 944 suspension bits:

The '86 944 and 951 along with the 86-88 924S alu trailing arms come with the correct "early offset" rear hubs. 87-onward 944 and 951 all have "late offset" hubs that will make it difficult to use any standard offset OEM wheels under the narrow body 924 rear arches.

All standard 86-88 924S and 82-89 944 came with 23.5mm solid torsion bars that are identical to the 23.5mm bars in the 79-onward NA 924 and all 931. If you want larger OEM t-bars, you would need to source OEM units from an M030-optioned 944S (25.5mm tubular), 944S2 (24mm), or 951 (25.5mm tubular pre-87, 26.8 tubular 87-onward). Of course, you can also use the aftermarket SwayAway bars that Stefan has referenced elsewhere, which provide sizes up to 30mm IIRC, and at a great price.

Definitive guide to OEM configurations here: http://www.924.org/techsection/SuspensionPreparation.htm
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15 981 GTS | 88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 82 931 Rallye | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini
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