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Aluminum Turbo Mount
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 661
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the vid of the oil fitting threading. Its running through it again without coolant so you can see it. Otherwise its a big mess

https://vimeo.com/180029988

Edit: Go back a page for pics
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1980 931 ...off with the cobwebs
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA M471/M481 / ohne M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
0.5 1982 931 smashed parts car
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bling!
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
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Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ideola wrote:
Bling!


Thanks!

I am going to start another thread regarding the head/block conversation but for the moment I am placing this here since this isn't the first time it was discussed. 95mm bore spacing is crazy rare and is playing tricks with the block idea. This is easy to see in the other thread too

http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=30116&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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1980 931 ...off with the cobwebs
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA M471/M481 / ohne M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
0.5 1982 931 smashed parts car
1982 931 parts car?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 WB wana-be GTR race car
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mitsu 420A has 96mm bore spacing. Is there enough meat in our block to offset bore the cylinders to achieve that spacing????!
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Mike9311  



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Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ideola wrote:


..and you found this how? ....I shouldn't ask Thanks!

That's crazy....Edit: wait that isn't our block. Funny how I looked right past it and the pic was so big I missed your last post before it
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1980 931 ...off with the cobwebs
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA M471/M481 / ohne M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
0.5 1982 931 smashed parts car
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 661
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ideola wrote:
Mitsu 420A has 96mm bore spacing. Is there enough meat in our block to offset bore the cylinders to achieve that spacing????!


I was looking at a Mitsubishi 4B11T which is 96mm (not sure if that is the same as 420A). This had me creating a CAD model of a wet sleeve since the 96mm bore spacing allowed a 90mm bore. I then cut it back to reflect the 95mm spacing. For a moment I was thinking we could run 89mm pistons but no... Once I checked the wall thickness it had us back to the magical number 88. I was so hoping for a slightly larger bore

But this would still allow for a lighter block at 88mm. I am quitting looking for bore spacing numbers and getting back to work one way or another. I am convinced not much is out there at 95mm

Your question: I would think we could shift it some but I am going to try and lay 96mm bores over 95mm bores to see how it looks. One way the Mitsu plays to our favor is the stock bore is 86mm.
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1979 924 NA M471/M481 / ohne M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
0.5 1982 931 smashed parts car
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1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
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Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here it is. I took full liberty with 88mm bore at 95mm bore spacing with 86mm "head' bore at 96mm

Green 96mm/86mm overlaid on black 95mm/88mm. Green is transparent so you see what is aligned. With some bowl work to match the bore this could work. Obviously the valves are in strange offset locations within each bore. Keep in mind I just eyeballed this overlaying process



Edit: Man your head choice is a lot cheaper too...
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1980 931 ...off with the cobwebs
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA M471/M481 / ohne M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
0.5 1982 931 smashed parts car
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1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would double-triple verify the 96mm spacing. The injector spacing for many of the mitsu motors is dead nuts on 95mm, so it seems odd to me that the cylinders would be different. The Dodge Neon SRT also uses 95mm spacing for injectors, so that might be another path to investigate.
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
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Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ideola wrote:
I would double-triple verify the 96mm spacing. The injector spacing for many of the mitsu motors is dead nuts on 95mm, so it seems odd to me that the cylinders would be different. The Dodge Neon SRT also uses 95mm spacing for injectors, so that might be another path to investigate.


Thats good to know, thanks. I have a mitsu head gasket coming
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1980 931 ...off with the cobwebs
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA M471/M481 / ohne M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
0.5 1982 931 smashed parts car
1982 931 parts car?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 WB wana-be GTR race car
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
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Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two updates:

The good: The mount was mocked up on a block with head, turbo, and manifold. Fits beautifully. A strange experience after all that work. The original scan to cad model revealed odd angles but they were correct. Don't think any other method would have worked. Now comes the refining of the machining code to speed and simplify. Cut over an hour off the roughing and I am not done yet.

The bad: Secondly, the Mitsu head gasket revealed exactly what the cad comparison indicated. The Mitsu bore center is 96mm

This will be the path: An optimized 8V head all the while looking at the feasibility of a 16v. I want the 8V to appear as stock as possible on the outside and hopefully sit on a billet block. A bolt on head that works on any block. This also leaves the possibility of Turbo or NA combustion chambers specific to the application. Would love to see cooling improved but this will be the most difficult part
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1980 931 ...off with the cobwebs
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA M471/M481 / ohne M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
0.5 1982 931 smashed parts car
1982 931 parts car?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 WB wana-be GTR race car
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15500
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike9311 wrote:
the Mitsu head gasket revealed exactly what the cad comparison indicated. The Mitsu bore center is 96mm


So why won't offset bores work? If you're having the block bored for larger pistons anyway, why not go offset bore for the 16v head? Even if the head combustion chamber is smaller diameter, you could still do sleeves in the block to get down to necessary bore.
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
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Location: MI

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice!!
That looks really cool!
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(Fast Eddie) Thanks!

(Ideola) The offset idea seems to work but really only with the larger 88mm bore. The over lay I made in CAD is with 88mm bores. Pistons might be strange too. If I were do to a direct swap the chambers could be scribbed to the block and reworked to reflect the new situation. On other fronts, I have been looking at the possibility of do a rocker arm setup which would allow for a proper spacing

Can I ask a question? When do we cross the "swap" line? This always eats at me a tad. I figure if we come up with something 'made' instead of swapped this is ok. If the Volvo heads were Porsche designed there is some connected heritage

I have started the process now that I am essentially past the T Mount
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1980 931 ...off with the cobwebs
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA M471/M481 / ohne M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
0.5 1982 931 smashed parts car
1982 931 parts car?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 WB wana-be GTR race car
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agfisher  



Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 435
Location: West Hartford, CT

PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike9311 wrote:
(Ideola) The offset idea seems to work but really only with the larger 88mm bore. The over lay I made in CAD is with 88mm bores. Pistons might be strange too. If I were do to a direct swap the chambers could be scribbed to the block and reworked to reflect the new situation. On other fronts, I have been looking at the possibility of do a rocker arm setup which would allow for a proper spacing


Just because I'm curious, if you off-center the bores would you also need to fashion a brand new crankshaft to deal with the off-centered rods?
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