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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11724
Location: PacNW
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 Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| Mike9311 wrote: | | I am warming up for a much much bigger project proposed here previously |
Dying over here.
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Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1678
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Rasta Monsta wrote: | | Mike9311 wrote: | | I am warming up for a much much bigger project proposed here previously |
Dying over here. |
You have my laughing this morning  I was wondering if someone noticed this and I need to be held accountable so here goes
block, head or both. If one gets made, of course so will the other at that point. I like the idea of both but I have been leaning toward the block first since I need to build an engine or two. Another reason is that the block looks easier while the head requires research, testing, and more research (but its smaller...hmm). Lately I have been wondering what are the items I can build that lighten while allowing the car to be returned to its original state? Not that any of mine are anything special. I have the billet ready for an engine mount too but I back burned that one for the moment.
So what say ye kind sir? Thoughts, ideas....criticism? Other than a ton of research and some measurements of a block, I have not gone much farther. I am semi wincing as I await the response
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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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Fasteddie313
Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2596
Location: MI
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:37 am Post subject: |
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HEAD!!!!!!!!
16 valves please
Our blocks are bulletproof, maybe make pistons though? That should be pretty easy comparatively and you might get many buyers here..
I bet if you could offer a 4 valve head $$ competitive with a mittlemotor ported head they would sell..
Holy 924 grail.. 16 valve head.. Your name would go down in history!!
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80 Turbo - Slightly Modified |
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1678
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| Fasteddie313 wrote: | HEAD!!!!!!!!
16 valves please
Our blocks are bulletproof, maybe make pistons though? That should be pretty easy comparatively and you might get many buyers here..
I bet if you could offer a 4 valve head $$ competitive with a mittlemotor ported head they would sell..
Holy 924 grail.. 16 valve head.. Your name would go down in history!! |
I was hoping to start with a 2 valve head with better geometry and a block for weight savings
... but for R&D giggles lets talk.
Would we base a 16V on a VW head so we could use the cams? What would be the approach?
There is a part of me that wants to make stuff 'stock' appearing but so much for that with the turbo mount. This one anyway
_________________
1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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Fasteddie313
Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2596
Location: MI
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:17 am Post subject: |
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In my imagination I see finding something existing SOHC 16valve with a cam tower like the 944 and using all the rockers, cam tower, valves, and everything from it..
Machine just the chunk of aluminum that fits the valvetrain and our block, the head.
I wonder if you could like 3d scan the valvetrain dimensions of an existing head, 3d scan a 931 head's block interface, and merge them together on a computer or even just line them up to look for interferences..
Sounds quite complex.. I don't really know what you can and cannot do with CNC computers/software..
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80 Turbo - Slightly Modified |
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1678
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| Fasteddie313 wrote: |
I wonder if you could like 3d scan the valvetrain dimensions of an existing head, 3d scan a 931 head's block interface, and merge them together on a computer or even just line them up to look for interferences..
Sounds quite complex.. I don't really know what you can and cannot do with CNC computers/software.. |
So much can be done and this is exactly what I am doing. The turbo mount was my test because its actually more complex than it looks. The mount angles are just strange. I built my CAD model off a 3D scan. Really makes me appreciate what they did back then! Every step leads to another. You actually want me to leap all the way! After this mount is done, let's see what I can do but I want to keep it simple (step wise) and keep moving up
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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15548
Location: Spring Lake MI
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:48 am Post subject: |
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There are many posts on this forum discussing possible 16v head candidates. I believe one of them was from a mitsubishi, which shares very similar displacement and cylinder spacing to our block. I would suggest doing some searching on research that has already been done, as there were some promising possibilities already dug up.
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erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1678
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| ideola wrote: | | There are many posts on this forum discussing possible 16v head candidates. I believe one of them was from a mitsubishi, which shares very similar displacement and cylinder spacing to our block. I would suggest doing some searching on research that has already been done, as there were some promising possibilities already dug up. |
Great, I will look into that. There will likely be mitsubishi billet heads out there too to look at
_________________
1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1678
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:11 am Post subject: |
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I remember some of these threads from before once I saw them again. They actually helped answer a question I thought I had to get myself which was cool (thanks Dan), regarding bore spacing. Thoughts of wet or dry sleeves are occupying my sub conscious and this was a question needing answers
I am going to still take all of this in careful steps and not jump right to the 16V idea. A custom billet (stroker) crank seems more inviting than the 16V in a way. I need to prioritize carefully
With a billet 2 valve head I was thinking better port design without worry of breaking into a water passage. This would also allow for custom combustion chambers for turbo or NA. Maybe incorporating Gegge's offset exhaust valve idea (If I remember right?) to lessen shrouding. I have been prepping a head and block to reverse engineer to CAD. We can go from there
For 16V, I need to get a hold of a viable candidate. Any comments or ideas welcome, positive or negative
Hopefully, i'll have another pic or two of the turbo mount today, tomorrow or very soon anyway
_________________
1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11724
Location: PacNW
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:00 am Post subject: |
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Wasn't there a Volvo 16v head that some one got o fit?
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Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1678
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 5:11 am Post subject: |
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Hard to find on this site but I did find something. From the pic it looks decent but anyway....
So much for careful...let out the rope a tad today to get it done faster too soon. Crashed tool into mount  Usable as a test, yes, but would prefer not to carry carbide on board
Going to run a few more other passes to check them out and pull it. Start over. At least I can run the first items at full tilt
Edit: Got mount holes, Drain, and O-ring groove in.
Edit: Yet some more fillet work and so forth. Reverted back to previous stable 'post' as its called
_________________
1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1678
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:12 am Post subject: |
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Here is a pic of the journey from scan to CAD/CAM. Now imagine it on the next part(s) 
_________________
1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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Power Tryp
Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Posts: 434
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| Rasta Monsta wrote: | | Wasn't there a Volvo 16v head that some one got o fit? |
A Volvo B123 head fits a Pinto engine almost perfectly. I haven't seen anything with cooling passages and bolt spacing suited for our engines. Maybe its time to hunt.
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Melanie - 1980 931
NoName - 1980 931 (seeking rebuild)
Green tartan interior, you don't see that on a Civic. |
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1678
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| Power Tryp wrote: | | Rasta Monsta wrote: | | Wasn't there a Volvo 16v head that some one got o fit? |
A Volvo B123 head fits a Pinto engine almost perfectly. I haven't seen anything with cooling passages and bolt spacing suited for our engines. Maybe its time to hunt. |
I think this is the head or the number is close anyway. Its much sought after by all the Ford guys and interestingly it was designed by Porsche
The bore spacing is off but I believe by only 1mm (96mm? my notes are not in front of me). The Ford guys do some interesting mods to make them work
If I go 16V, I would reverse engineer the head and match it to our block. Until I get my hands on a 16V to mess with I will continue on a 8V
Update: Mount is out. Prepping for side 2...with or without the piece of carbide in it. If it mocks up nice. I'll crank out another one which will happen so much faster
_________________
1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA ohne 650 mit 471
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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Power Tryp
Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Posts: 434
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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| Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:00 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, the engine code is B234F.
I wish I had a head gasket to compare to, and then something creative might have to happen for cooking purposes.
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Melanie - 1980 931
NoName - 1980 931 (seeking rebuild)
Green tartan interior, you don't see that on a Civic. |
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