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Aluminum Turbo Mount
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 654
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:10 am    Post subject: Aluminum Turbo Mount Reply with quote

Hi Guys

Its been a while since I posted but that doesn't mean I am not doing anything in the midst of responsibilities and its not for lack of dreaming anything 924

I have been working on this one for a while and its finally being proof cut in aluminum! Want a way to remove a Kilo off a turbo?

Anyway, just want to share my excitement as I move along and there is more going on too but I'll save those things for later

So here it is in rough form. I'll post finish pics when I have them.


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1980 931 ...off with the cobwebs
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA M471/M481 / ohne M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
0.5 1982 931 smashed parts car
1982 931 parts car?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 WB wana-be GTR race car
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15497
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is awesome.

Somewhere along the line, I managed to get ahold of TWO of the OEM units in cast aluminum. Most of them were cast iron. I've never been able to determine where the alu ones came from (late S2??? Euro models??? 937 models???).

But there is a significant weight difference for sure.

Great job. Some day you should take a pic of all of your custom lightweight parts. Have you been keeping a running tally of the weight savings?
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15 981 GTS | 88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 82 931 Rallye | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini
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WEASEL149  



Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 592
Location: UK, Sheffield

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the cast ally one on my car. Unfortunately they break quite easily, as I found out when I removed my original turbo and the mount was cracked right through.

I'll wager your machined alternative will be stronger.
Don't know the weight difference but every little helps.
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 654
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ideola wrote:
That is awesome.

Somewhere along the line, I managed to get a hold of TWO of the OEM units in cast aluminum. Most of them were cast iron. I've never been able to determine where the alu ones came from (late S2??? Euro models??? 937 models???).

But there is a significant weight difference for sure.

Great job. Some day you should take a pic of all of your custom lightweight parts. Have you been keeping a running tally of the weight savings?


Thanks!

I always thought the Alum versions were GTR? Awesome how you guys got a hold of these. When I started my father looked at me and said there had to be a reason it was made in cast iron. I looked back and said there was an Aluminum GTR version so this should be fine...now I hear they crack. Weasel, it would be neat to see where they cracked? Same spot?

This is 6061 so its certainly better than cast. We will just have to see

I plan on showing more and hope to even get you involved since you are so close now! I am working on setting up the turbo head into the CNC for your big valve kit and more.... You probably wondered why I never ordered pistons its because of my head idea. One thing at a time or maybe 2

It should be around -1 Kg for this one. Its a trade off on how I want to machine it and how it can be done with the least amount of set ups even with 5 Axis. I have made so many CAD models with the bottom all cut out and finally just quit and started machining. Its final look will be due more to less fixturing/set ups then how I think it should be. Might cost some grams
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1980 931 ...off with the cobwebs
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA M471/M481 / ohne M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
0.5 1982 931 smashed parts car
1982 931 parts car?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 WB wana-be GTR race car
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DZGunner  



Joined: 18 Nov 2014
Posts: 129
Location: Great white north

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where does this go exactly, sorry I'm not that well acquainted with all the 924 parts yet.
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 654
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mounts the turbo to the block. It is kinda hard to see since is under the exhaust manifold.

I think I have a picture of Shaggy's (I think) set up somewhere that shows the mount with the turbo all nicely safety wired up to manifold. It shows the mount.
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1980 931 ...off with the cobwebs
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA M471/M481 / ohne M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
0.5 1982 931 smashed parts car
1982 931 parts car?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 WB wana-be GTR race car
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WEASEL149  



Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 592
Location: UK, Sheffield

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found the old photos I took for you. This damage wasn't apparent at all until the manifold/turbo etc etc was dismantled:-







This could, of course, have been caused by a one-off casting fault, YMMV.
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WEASEL149  



Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 592
Location: UK, Sheffield

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike9311 wrote:
I plan on showing more and hope to even get you involved since you are so close now! I am working on setting up the turbo head into the CNC for your big valve kit and more.... You probably wondered why I never ordered pistons its because of my head idea. One thing at a time or maybe 2

It should be around -1 Kg for this one. Its a trade off on how I want to machine it and how it can be done with the least amount of set ups even with 5 Axis. I have made so many CAD models with the bottom all cut out and finally just quit and started machining. Its final look will be due more to less fixturing/set ups then how I think it should be. Might cost some grams


I'd be interested in seeing more of your CNC stuff especially a CNC machined head.
We have a couple of 5 axis grinders and a 4 axis miller at work. I've also been trying for years to get the head on the miller but have never been allowed the machining time, so gave up.

The last few months I've considered setting up a machining business on the side so never say never...

Have a look at billet machined merge collectors for turbo exhaust manifolds - especially with wastegate takeoffs. They sell for good money.
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 654
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, thanks for those great pics of the cracked off OEM mount. I figured it would break there. As we all know there is a lot of stress all around this area. Everything is so tight packaging wise and hard mounted. Combined with all the heat there was bound to be issues. Interesting to see the 931 at the start of the PN too. Doing some sort of stock location header or combo of CNC'd merge maybe with takeoff would help since I could design in a slip joint or something to fight all the dimensional change's from expansion and contraction. I remember vividly, eons ago in my youth after a cam swap, my manifold glowing red... I have a header design/mock up kit for this purpose (can't recall the name???) and some experience building them. I figured the 931 would be the real challenge for me.

Billet heads will come or at least that is my longer term plan. Its always cooling/cooling channels that will be issue. The current plan was to make a steel head plate to prevent or limit distortion both for welding and machining. I am going to weld up the chamber, shape it the way I want it and scan. From there I can consistently CNC the remaining chambers after welding. This is done a lot out there so it will be interesting. While I do all this I will add Ideola's big valve kit I bought years ago.

5 axis grinders, very cool. You should start something! Start slow and just keep moving

I just recently read an article how someone started a machining business starting with airsoft gun mods. The cheapest little thing gets things going

oh, and I keep forgetting. The engine mount is another thing I will attack. Very much dislike the weight of that thing.
_________________
1980 931 ...off with the cobwebs
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA M471/M481 / ohne M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
0.5 1982 931 smashed parts car
1982 931 parts car?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 WB wana-be GTR race car
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DZGunner  



Joined: 18 Nov 2014
Posts: 129
Location: Great white north

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carve us a solid aluminum block, that should drop a little weight.
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 654
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DZGunner wrote:
Carve us a solid aluminum block, that should drop a little weight.


Funny

I have a folder full of just block stuff for this very reason! In truth this should not be too hard.

I just feel like I do too much talking and not enough doing. So this time around I wanted to start by "doing" and just got a tad excited once I started letting chips fly that I thought I'd share
_________________
1980 931 ...off with the cobwebs
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA M471/M481 / ohne M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
0.5 1982 931 smashed parts car
1982 931 parts car?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 WB wana-be GTR race car
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15497
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Imagine what we'll be able to do when 3D printing with powdered metal can produce components strong enough for an internal combustion engine.
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15 981 GTS | 88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 82 931 Rallye | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 654
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ideola wrote:
Imagine what we'll be able to do when 3D printing with powdered metal can produce components strong enough for an internal combustion engine.


They already have believe it or not. A nozzle on a space x rocket can be either machined or printed. One goes in place of the other without any other changes. There is video of this on YouTube. Someone else just printed a cylinder head where the cooling passages have a matrix that increases the head strength while also adding an incredible amount of surface area for additional cooling. None of which could have been cast or machined. GE held a contest for a jet engine hook that was made stronger and lighter with printing. Plus it looked organically cool. Craziness. I keep my eye on this stuff constantly

We can just keep imagining because we will just think up more uses.

I also have to find a picture of an exhaust manifold that was printed in Inconel if memory serves. Us 24 guys could design and print a truly awesome exhaust manifold that was more like a header. Just need money right now with the cost of the machine and the POWDER. At IMTS i was looking into one and I found out how expensive the powder was. Big dollar

I'll find that pic
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1980 931 ...off with the cobwebs
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA M471/M481 / ohne M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
0.5 1982 931 smashed parts car
1982 931 parts car?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 WB wana-be GTR race car
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15497
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ideola wrote:
Imagine what we'll be able to do when 3D printing with powdered metal can affordably produce components strong enough for an internal combustion engine.


There. Fixed it.

One of my former clients mass produces using powdered metal, but not yet via printing. Iknow it's already possible, just not practical. Yet.
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15 981 GTS | 88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 82 931 Rallye | 81 937 | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 80 US 931 | 80 931 GTR | 79 Sebring | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition | 77 Martini
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 7825
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ideola wrote:
ideola wrote:
Imagine what we'll be able to do when 3D printing with powdered metal can affordably produce components strong enough for an internal combustion engine.


There. Fixed it.

One of my former clients mass produces using powdered metal, but not yet via printing. Iknow it's already possible, just not practical. Yet.


One method of producing solid components out of metal powder is called sintering. I've worked on some prototype parts using this kind of production method. They are pretty strong.
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