Show full size 924Board.org
Discussion Forum of 924.org
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
 Technical FAQ924 FAQ (Technical)   Technical924 Technical Section   Jump to 924.org924.org   Jump to PCA 924 Registry924 Registry

My 924 Turbo, engine updates ongoing..
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    924Board.org Forum Index -> Performance Upgrades
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1495
Location: Not Detriot - NMI

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It won't let me pm you.. keeps saying user not found..
Anyway..

CÚdric wrote:
Hi! It's been a while since i saw you on the board!

As you know i have been working on replicating your intercooler install, but with my own twist. Progress is good, engine is done and on its way in, and ic is in place. I have run into a little issue, the comp outlet is very close to the oil return line/nut, so close that i can't fit a Silicone hose in there. It only works if my comp outlet is pointing straight down more or less, but then im not sure it will cleare the steering rack.

Any ideas on this? Did it work better for you maybe since the coolant hose is thinner than Silicone hoses?


Hey man good to hear from ya.. I scan the board from time to time still and I'll get back to it some day..

Anyway about the oil cooler lines..
I think what I did was something like loosten them, and then rotate them to where they pointed down toward the ground, then tightened them back up, and then bent their angles slightly up toward the turbo block mount, then loosen them again, rotate them up high to clear the turbo outlet..

I also ground down that nub on the block with great success..
Also I ground one of the steering rack mount hole tube things down a half inch or so, made the bolt thread down further, to where the turbo outlet would clear the block and steering rack better..

I'm having dinner at my moms right now but if you want to give me a specific thread to drop some pics in when I get home I'll go out there, snap some pics, and post them to your thread for reference..

Ya I guess this will be that thread..
_________________
1980 931S - LSD - FMIC - GTS fuel - hobby
95 M3 manual coupe - summer DD
06 X5 3.0 auto - winter DD
01 RS25 coupe - 90% Retired
06 MDX - bought for mom to DD
81 Rambler BBC 454
97 Tercel long retired/sitting
77 gs750 - 95 300ex - 89 blaster
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1495
Location: Not Detriot - NMI

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Yeah I basically just bent them out of the way..
To me they are basically like big break lines, they can be massaged a bit..

The oil cooler.. I straightened out the bracket on it and bolted that on one of the washer bottle bolts I believe, and the other side to my radiator spacer frame..

Me looking at these pics now I remember that these lines aren't tight on their banjo side right now so they are resting on the comp housing..
Lift the lines up before tightening the banjo bolts and that holds em up a little higher..

Also you see the blue turbo tag.. If you take a close look at it you can see where I ground that corner of it down where it sticks out there to give the lines more space..
Check out the cool spiderwebs too
_________________
1980 931S - LSD - FMIC - GTS fuel - hobby
95 M3 manual coupe - summer DD
06 X5 3.0 auto - winter DD
01 RS25 coupe - 90% Retired
06 MDX - bought for mom to DD
81 Rambler BBC 454
97 Tercel long retired/sitting
77 gs750 - 95 300ex - 89 blaster


Last edited by Fasteddie313 on Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:42 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1683
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the answer,, I have yet to hassle with the oil cooler lines, that will be when the engine is in place since i need to modify them for my new setrab cooler.

My first hurdle is the turbo oil return line nut, I hope the picture explains it better.


_________________
┤79 924
http://www.garaget.org/show.php?car=211
┤80 924 Turbo
http://www.garaget.org/?car=160275
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1495
Location: Not Detriot - NMI

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I got ya..

I don't think I ever had a problem with that line with respect to the compressor discharge piping..

I did have a problem with that line rubbing my Xmember but It wa an eaxy fix, guess I didn't quite put it back together on the same angle or something..

I guess I am going to have to go take another look at mine but remember your compressor is a size bigger than mine, which I really hope does not screw up the whole design..

I bet you can tweak that big nut around enough to get the flat side facing your discharge nipple, gain you a couple mm..
Also I might try loostening the 2 bolts that hold that drain manifold thing to the turbo bearing housing and see if you cant get it to turn a bit via some slop in the mounting stud holes.. If not, maybe hog those 2 mount holes in the drain manifold thing out a bit toward the direction you want to turn a little and get it to move enough that way to get it out of your way..


In your picture that nub on the block just behind that big nut is the one I ground the front half off of to better clear the discharge hose so the hhose pretty much runs 1/4" deep into that nub and down the block..
To give you an idea of where its really pointed..

Oh yeah..
Or maybe you could use one of these to make it work.. If all else fails..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Turbo-Oil-Drain-Flange-10AN-Garrett-T3-T4-T04B-T04E-T66-KKK-K26-K27-Hitachi-H18/162058096163?hash=item25bb6a4e23:g:iDEAAOSweW5VI5Qq&vxp=mtr
_________________
1980 931S - LSD - FMIC - GTS fuel - hobby
95 M3 manual coupe - summer DD
06 X5 3.0 auto - winter DD
01 RS25 coupe - 90% Retired
06 MDX - bought for mom to DD
81 Rambler BBC 454
97 Tercel long retired/sitting
77 gs750 - 95 300ex - 89 blaster
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Dutch924-racer  



Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 1000
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love your turbo upgrade. Where did you buy the billet wheel ?
_________________
937 trackday car
Series 2 engine
951S turbo and intercooler
937 DITC
Fast road camshaft
Forge recirculation valve + boost controller


Last edited by Dutch924-racer on Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1683
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fasteddie, thanks for the thoughts, the compressor side isnt fixed in position until the engine is dropped in. Maybe we will have to continue the discussion then and see if I can get things working. I reaally look forward getting this going. Will se if i can get that nut better positioned before the drop in.


The comp wheel is from slturbo.com, a real turbo geek who knows all kkk part numbers by heart. I think its kts turbo billet who made it. I think he still have some of them left. He have a high speed balancing machine aswell, which is a minimum requirement from my side.
_________________
┤79 924
http://www.garaget.org/show.php?car=211
┤80 924 Turbo
http://www.garaget.org/?car=160275
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1683
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cooling package with mega fat intercooler is soon in place, i hope it will work when everything is there. Might paint everything black when I'm finished for the stealth look.

Excuse me for the mega crap quality picture.



_________________
┤79 924
http://www.garaget.org/show.php?car=211
┤80 924 Turbo
http://www.garaget.org/?car=160275
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1683
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Engine is now in place, which means that the second stage of work take place, with all the piping, oil cooler lines etc need to be solved. I might rethink the routing of the boost pipes, ill come back with some pictures if it seems to work.


_________________
┤79 924
http://www.garaget.org/show.php?car=211
┤80 924 Turbo
http://www.garaget.org/?car=160275
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1495
Location: Not Detriot - NMI

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just went through your whole thread again and man your car is going to be awesome..
Your rad and IC are massive, I hope you can find a sleek way to route your intake plumbing and it looks like you can..
Looking back I see that you have that updated turbo oil drain with the separator that also goes to the top of the head.. Mine doesn't have that, just the hose from the turbo oil drain to the oilpan..
I think this is what is making the difference in your compressor outlet clearance..

I'm curious to see what you will come up with for a recirculating blow off valve and the associated plumbing from the ait meter to the compressor inlet.. I would like to do mine differently and put the BOV down under rather than up top front and center, hide it..

Leadfoot gave me a couple oil cooler AN fittings that fit the oil filter adaptor on the block welded to AN fittings but I have not used them..

I also want to eventually figure out how to get the undertray skid pan thing on my car over all the piping, maybe you will figure this out too..

I think I am going to have more time to work on mine now and have a real itch to hear it run so I might fire it up soon and go back from there to connect all the loose ends..
_________________
1980 931S - LSD - FMIC - GTS fuel - hobby
95 M3 manual coupe - summer DD
06 X5 3.0 auto - winter DD
01 RS25 coupe - 90% Retired
06 MDX - bought for mom to DD
81 Rambler BBC 454
97 Tercel long retired/sitting
77 gs750 - 95 300ex - 89 blaster
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1683
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Nice to see interest in 931 tuning, it's not much activity in the 931 tuning community anymore, sadly.

Still lots to do, changed all clutch lines last time due to small leak and then got on with the piping
Completed the turbo Inlet pipe, and also started on the boost pipes,, as you can see it's damn tigh, had to squeeze that pipe brutally

The T you see in the turbo Inlet is for bov recirc, i will post more pics of it. At the moment im thinking of aiming at the wheel with the compressor outlet and having a 180 degree pipe pulling the pipe between the steering rack and sway bar.. Its just to cramped the other way, all pipes will rub against each other.

Silicone pipes have 5mm thick walls, that is also giving me less space.



_________________
┤79 924
http://www.garaget.org/show.php?car=211
┤80 924 Turbo
http://www.garaget.org/?car=160275
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1534
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whats your view on needing a BOV/recirc on the 924 Cedric?
_________________
1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, CGT turbo, 951 ducted FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife LSD
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1683
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carrera RSR wrote:
Whats your view on needing a BOV/recirc on the 924 Cedric?


I'll go with it because i don't want to risk hurting my turbo.

Although if the bearing system is very sturdy it can take many surge events before it does any damage.

On our scania trucks you can here this surge during shifting events under extreme conditions. And its a choice we made deliberately to keep shifting times low. It won't affect the turbos lifespan, that has been well researched. But if your bearing system is on the limit it can make nasty damage. So thr boring answer is that it depends. Hence why some people say it works and some say it destructs turbos. The bearing/shaft system from different suppliers work very differently, some have very sturdy bearing systems and some are much more fragile.

Maybe an update to 360 degrees axial bearing could be a good idea, though it will cost friction and yield a slower responding turbo in general. I didn't do that due to friction costs.
_________________
┤79 924
http://www.garaget.org/show.php?car=211
┤80 924 Turbo
http://www.garaget.org/?car=160275
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1683
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Btw this is something i could research in my simulation model, running a transient shift event with and without bov, and looking at the response times.
_________________
┤79 924
http://www.garaget.org/show.php?car=211
┤80 924 Turbo
http://www.garaget.org/?car=160275
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1495
Location: Not Detriot - NMI

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where you have your hard pipe next to the compressor inlet going to the lower charge tube, I have a soft pipe that is sort of a longish L all the way from the lower charge tube down to about where yours is coming out..

It does touch other stuff but has not been a problem and being a soft pipe it's not crunched in there..

Your recirc setup there is exactly like mine..

What sort of problem are you having getting your compressor outlet to the IC? That oil drain still in your way?
The soft pipe directly off my comp outlet is a pretty unique S shape that kicks it out and points it right down the steering rack..
You are thinking of sending it for a 180 pointing towards the wheel?

Your IC nipples are way different than mine so I'm sure you have unique challenges..

This is the fun part where you get to create something completely of your own.. Experiment..
_________________
1980 931S - LSD - FMIC - GTS fuel - hobby
95 M3 manual coupe - summer DD
06 X5 3.0 auto - winter DD
01 RS25 coupe - 90% Retired
06 MDX - bought for mom to DD
81 Rambler BBC 454
97 Tercel long retired/sitting
77 gs750 - 95 300ex - 89 blaster
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1683
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fasteddie313 wrote:
Where you have your hard pipe next to the compressor inlet going to the lower charge tube, I have a soft pipe that is sort of a longish L all the way from the lower charge tube down to about where yours is coming out..

It does touch other stuff but has not been a problem and being a soft pipe it's not crunched in there..

Your recirc setup there is exactly like mine..

What sort of problem are you having getting your compressor outlet to the IC? That oil drain still in your way?
The soft pipe directly off my comp outlet is a pretty unique S shape that kicks it out and points it right down the steering rack..
You are thinking of sending it for a 180 pointing towards the wheel?

Your IC nipples are way different than mine so I'm sure you have unique challenges..

This is the fun part where you get to create something completely of your own.. Experiment..


Yeah, its pretty fun as a challenge, i just wish i had more time to tinker with the setup. When im finally happy and everything works i will probably weld most of it in aluminium pipes, more tidy and more space. but for a while it will be some testing with the piping.

i had no chance to go straight down at the lower charge tube, i have both the weltmeister sway bar bracket (which could be grind down, but i tried not to, at least in this stage) and the compressor itself, plus of course the compressor inlet pipe. i think the cooling hoses you are using have much thinner walls, which aids the packaging alot.

regarding the comp outlet its just to messy with all the piping at the same place, i prefer to not have things rubbing against each other since im afraid something will chafe through with track abuse etc. it might be easier with some pipe that is thinner with the perfect kink, like the one you found. I just havent got the time to search around for different oem hoses, had to buy stuff from the shelf. I also have a tube coming from the std bov steel line, i did want to try have it intact, which also collides with the number plate on the compressor, which would need to be grinded down like you did with yours.

As a man working with (among other things) gas exchange systems on engines and trying to minimizing pressure loss in the charge system it kind of hurts to make it a bit messy But i have a large compressor which can compensate for it, and its top priority that the engine looks completely standard in the engine bay. I do hope it will be a fairly good working solution when im done.

If i have time ill build something similar in my simulation model just to see how much it costs in terms of power. probably not many horses.
_________________
┤79 924
http://www.garaget.org/show.php?car=211
┤80 924 Turbo
http://www.garaget.org/?car=160275
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    924Board.org Forum Index -> Performance Upgrades All times are GMT + 11 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 6 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group