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100% DEFINATIVE TURBOCHARGER PART NUMBERS 931 S1-S2 AND 951
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8338
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Euro S1 wheel next to Chinesium billet wheel.
The euro S1 is the most primtive of all wheels used in the 924 turbo.
Its just a straight up fin fan with slightly bent fins at the top.
I replaced that one with the billet one in my S1 931 not much time before i sold it. Car ran cooler, boosted a tiny bit earlier and pushed a bit harder even though i havent changed the boost level and i wasnt running any intercooler.



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Cdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 2114
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fasteddie313 wrote:
So what compressor do I need for 23-25psi DD and a tiny bit more headroom??
Like just enough headroom to hit 30psi on a dyno so I can piss the entire 924 (and 951) world off.. more..


Steve (carreraRSR) had recently found a k27 7200 compressor on a 951 turbocharger for sale somewhere, should be suitable for your targets and enough for 400hp. If he dives in here he might have more info..
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8338
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may be wrong but IIRC Dan (ideola)..or it could have been someone else here..had such a compressor mated to a 931 #6 and that made for an extremely laggy system, meaning very late out of vacuum and similar behavior for max boost.
If you go for such a high flow compressor you better be prepared to drive it like a honda
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Cdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 2114
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

morghen wrote:
I may be wrong but IIRC Dan (ideola)..or it could have been someone else here..had such a compressor mated to a 931 #6 and that made for an extremely laggy system, meaning very late out of vacuum and similar behavior for max boost.
If you go for such a high flow compressor you better be prepared to drive it like a honda


Yeah, i wonder if it wouldnt be a better solution to make an adapter for the manifold and use a more modern turbocharger to get much better driveability with that HP target. Then you dont need to search all over the place for old stuff that starts to get rare.
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8338
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah no doubt the smartest way is to just throw a modern turbo like Raceboy always did on his cars. Another cool project for someone to do to his 931 would be to get a 250hp capable efficient modern turbo and simply fit it to the 931 without any other changes. I wonder how much nicer it would drive if tuned properly.
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peterld  



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 832
Location: Noosa Heads QLD Australia

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's exactly what GeorgeV did. Search his posts for more info.
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 2194
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heres a compressor wheel + housing project I started 2+ yrs ago and never finished it as I acquired the K27/26 hybrid turbo from Morghen which has worked very well for 2yrs now

All the 924 turbo compressor wheels in one image, I never found one elsewhere. Easy to see that the 2470 is a very poor compressor. Smaller differences between 2660, 2664 and 2670 unless you look closely and measure the key areas





For added info, here is the larger 2670 wheel versus the K27 3257 compressor in my car

This turbo + other mods including 15% more fuel via the fuel dizzy gave 240rwhp a year ago at 1.05bar. I now have 30% more fuel over stock and will be doing another dyno in 3 weeks. Hoping to break the 250rwhp target at 1-1.1bar boost. If I have more fuel headroom then boost may creep up further





Made some modifications to make it fit.... (and yes....I had been driving in winter salt, hence the corrosion on the belt tensioner)



But I will need a second turbo for my second car/motor set up. Either I use the 2664 wheel and housing or make the 2670 wheel fit a spare compressor housing, which one tbc or find the same K27 as I currently have. All will be mated to a #6 turbine.
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252


Last edited by Carrera RSR on Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:37 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 2194
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C�dric wrote:
Fasteddie313 wrote:
So what compressor do I need for 23-25psi DD and a tiny bit more headroom??
Like just enough headroom to hit 30psi on a dyno so I can piss the entire 924 (and 951) world off.. more..


Steve (carreraRSR) had recently found a k27 7200 compressor on a 951 turbocharger for sale somewhere, should be suitable for your targets and enough for 400hp. If he dives in here he might have more info..


I found two......one sold for £500 the other may have sold too as it was a lower price

I would believe that this turbo could be easier to find in US as it appears to be the way to go for 944 owners on Rennlist?
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1102
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fasteddie313 wrote:
So what compressor do I need for 23-25psi DD and a tiny bit more headroom??
Like just enough headroom to hit 30psi on a dyno so I can piss the entire 924 (and 951) world off.. more..


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Turbo-Compressor-Billet-Wheel-for-Borg-Warner-K26-Lancia-46-2-65-94-mm-6-6/392314539378?hash=item5b57c4cd72:g:b3sAAOSwFqZejtUm


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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1102
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve, the 2670 is doable it seems but its the top I'm watching as I go along. The bore nearest the valve. The casting is off center and I am now at exactly 44.5 + a hair so my wheel starts to enter. I want to scan the 2670 housing and lay it over the 2664. Hope to have that by Sunday if I get the scans done today




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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1102
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

morghen wrote:
Yeah no doubt the smartest way is to just throw a modern turbo like Raceboy always did on his cars. Another cool project for someone to do to his 931 would be to get a 250hp capable efficient modern turbo and simply fit it to the 931 without any other changes. I wonder how much nicer it would drive if tuned properly.


http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=43003
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1980 931 since 1989
1981 Ideola 931 Club Sport
1982 931 Entwicklungsfahrzeug
1979 924 NA M650 Herausnehmbares Dach
1982 931 Red Resurrection - 951 IC
1982 931 parts car / resurrection?
1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car
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Cdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 2114
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meant something much simpler, something like this. Joakim had this setup for years with a garret turbocharger, of course the EFR and twinscroll worked better, but it was still good for alot of power with the good ol log manifold.

btw, i think i have that manifold+adapter and the WG behind it in my stash nowdays, aquired it when i bought a bunch of 931 spares.

[img]https://www.bildtagg.se/file/thumb/wf9i52ti7endw65tk4df2yyj[/img]
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2224
Location: MI

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Modern turbo - no..

Mike9311 wrote:
Fasteddie313 wrote:
So what compressor do I need for 23-25psi DD and a tiny bit more headroom??
Like just enough headroom to hit 30psi on a dyno so I can piss the entire 924 (and 951) world off.. more..


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Turbo-Compressor-Billet-Wheel-for-Borg-Warner-K26-Lancia-46-2-65-94-mm-6-6/392314539378?hash=item5b57c4cd72:g:b3sAAOSwFqZejtUm



Exducer isn’t even any bigger though..

Think it’s gonna need to be a k27.. But how easily do 27 comps bolt to 26 bearing housings?

Looking for something like bigger than a 26xx
Like a 2760?

Here’s a 3057... ???
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BorgWarner-K27-Turbocharger-Fits-1983-09-KHD-Deutz-5327-970-5702-04151260/333522307279?hash=item4da77a88cf:g:nRwAAOSw92leT-ds

I see a 3060..

What size is a 7200?
K27.2-3072GD11.11GYATK

Ok so it’s a 3072...

Wouldn’t a 72 inducer be a bit much for a 2.0?
Probably don’t need that much flow (inducer) but need more compression (exducer) right?

So maybe a 30 wheel with about the same inducer size as a 2670?
Which would be about a 3060..

Would a 3072 be a bit too big on an inducer or no?

Small inducer for more efficiency at a higher pressure? Isn’t that how it works?
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2224
Location: MI

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

morghen wrote:
Just gonna lay this here...


turbine housing p/n: 5326 101 6365
compressor p/n: 5327 101 5091
compressor wheel p/n: 5327-123-2308
Backplate / Sealplate p/n: 5327-151-6701

This recipe can jump you over 300hp if you've got the fuel and will absolutely shock you on how fast you will run out of gears even with tall gears.


K27-3257MAA/13.21

Holy smokes that’s a 3257..
1.824” inducer.. same as a 2670 inducer but MUCH more exducer..
Bet that’d hit 30 psi, but is that enough inducer to flow it all?
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 2194
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fasteddie313 wrote:
This recipe can jump you over 300hp if you've got the fuel and will absolutely shock you on how fast you will run out of gears even with tall gears.

[/quote]

I ran up to 145mph on my old CGT turbo before bottling it. I've run up to 140mph on your old K27 before bottling it. 155mph is where I believe the car runs out of gears? Not sure I have the cahoonas to try.......
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, K27/26 3257 6.10 hybrid turbo, 951 FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252
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