Show full size 924Board.org
Discussion Forum of 924.org
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
 Technical FAQ924 FAQ (Technical)   Technical924 Technical Section   Jump to 924.org924.org   Jump to PCA 924 Registry924 Registry

Brake Pedal "feel"
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    924Board.org Forum Index -> General Discussions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Mars478  



Joined: 02 Nov 2013
Posts: 222
Location: NY

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:35 pm    Post subject: Brake Pedal "feel" Reply with quote

I know these cars are supposed to have a very stiff pedal and today I experienced it. My car had been sitting on a lot for a few years when I got it and I rebuilt part of the braking system with new hard lines since they had rusted through. However, I find that I have a mushy pedal, it works, but it's not the solid pedal described here.

Today I was driving the car around Brooklyn when my wipers stopped working in the rain (unrelated) so I pulled off to the side of the road with some semi abrupt brake action, and after that the pedal felt race-car hard. It was the best the pedal has ever felt bar none, it felt better than my friends 944. Once I reached my destination, I parked and turned the car off and on again to see if the pedal feel would stay, and unfortunately it did not. Any idea why this may be and how I can make the pedal feel stay the way it was after my abrupt braking maneuver?
Thanks
_________________
924, 82, 5 speed, dark red, 500 dollar special.

Daily: 99 ML320, 210k and still trucking.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11378
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you committed to the car? If so, refresh all hydraulics. Several hundred, yes. . .but it will get you through to 2074.
_________________
Toofah King Bad

  • Red (1987 924S) - Pro44/Spec944
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1853
Location: MI

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sounds like air in the line that finally worked its way out but I have no idea how it could return that fast...

brake fluid is notorious for absorbing atmospheric humidity, wet fluid is more mushy...

drain all the fluid out of the entire system at all calipers..

take the hard lines off of the master and lines off the calipers and blow them out all the way through with an air compressor from top down really well after you've let them gravity drain for a little while...

im not sure witch master lines are witch and how there connected/integrated to eachother but you might get blowback up top there from another line when you blow on one or the other, put a rag or something over the ones your now blowing on....

blast air both ways through your calipers doing whatever you can to catch any fluid coming out of them but you want to get rid of all of it...

oh yeah.. brake fluid + paint = bad... it'll eat your paint... try not to get it on any painted surface and if you do then get it off as soon as you can..

reconnect your lines and do a very thorough job of bleeding your new fluid to all calipers, probably go all the way around the car 3 times until you have no bubbles what so ever.. none, no bubbles... bubbles = mush

if you do a good job in replacing the fluid throughout the brakes should be hard as a rock, if there not then you have bulging brake lines and any more improvement will mean replacing the soft flex lines that are expanding with pressure....

braided stainless lines look really cool and don't bulge but idk what you can get for 924s
_________________
80 Turbo - Slightly Modified
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Mars478  



Joined: 02 Nov 2013
Posts: 222
Location: NY

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing is, I've bled this car numerous times with a motive power bleeder I bought specifically for this car. It's also completely new fluid. All soft flex lines have been replaced with new soft flex lines, could not splurge for the braideds at the time since they were very expensive.

Rasta, I am decently committed to the car, what's the single biggest thing I can replace to make the pedal feel better?

I am just so confused because I know the braking system has that ability to be rock hard but I want to know what caused it to be...
_________________
924, 82, 5 speed, dark red, 500 dollar special.

Daily: 99 ML320, 210k and still trucking.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15451
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Five lug or four lug?
_________________
88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mars478  



Joined: 02 Nov 2013
Posts: 222
Location: NY

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ideola wrote:
Five lug or four lug?

4.
_________________
924, 82, 5 speed, dark red, 500 dollar special.

Daily: 99 ML320, 210k and still trucking.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
fiat22turbo  



Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 4040
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like your booster may not be working reliably. Worth it to check the vacuum line to it and whether it will hold vacuum.

Also air bubbles in hydraulics can move around and after replacing lines and fittings I've found the need to check all of the fittings again to ensure they are tight after a brief drive around.

Finally the rear drums have to be in good shape and manually adjusted in order to have any hope for decent brake feel. They don't auto adjust, but are manually adjusted, it kinda sucks, but it's part of the joys of owning a 4-lug car.
_________________
Stefan
1979 924 Carrera GTS (clone-ish)
1988 944 Turbo S (Silver Rose)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15451
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience, the 4-lug setups with rear drums never maintain a good pedal feel for long because the rears go out of adjustment so quickly.

In any event, changing the old rubber flex lines to braided stainless will help some (the old rubber ones are probably expanding a bit under pressure). You should also flush and refill all of the fluid if you haven't already. Also, make sure you're not getting any leakdown from the master cylinder.

You might consider putting a rear brake adjustment on your regular to-do list, maybe every 5,000 miles or so. Unlike a lot of other cars of the era, the drums will not self adjust when backing up. You have to do it manually.
_________________
88 924S SE | 82 931 Holbert | 81 Euro 931 | 81 Weissach | 80 US 928 | 80 US 931 '941' | 78 D-Prod Replica | 78 w/D-Prod kit | 78 Poli-Form | 78 Limited Edition
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MikesCoupeGT  



Joined: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 467
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2014 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I am having a similar problem. Mine started last year after replacing the master cyl because it was leaking into itself. So as a test, if I disconnect the hard lines at the drums and calipers. Let them drain for, 2 or 3 hours using gravity, connect them back up and give it another bleed manually, we should get the solid pedal back?

Sorry for the run on sentence there.
_________________
Cheers;
MikesCoupeGT
'76 924
'83 944
''19 Elantra GT N-Line
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Mars478  



Joined: 02 Nov 2013
Posts: 222
Location: NY

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Food for thought, when I have the E-Brake on and the car is running, the brake feel is much, much better.
_________________
924, 82, 5 speed, dark red, 500 dollar special.

Daily: 99 ML320, 210k and still trucking.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11378
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mars478 wrote:
Food for thought, when I have the E-Brake on and the car is running, the brake feel is much, much better.


Like Dan said. . .adjustment problem.
_________________
Toofah King Bad

  • Red (1987 924S) - Pro44/Spec944
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mars478  



Joined: 02 Nov 2013
Posts: 222
Location: NY

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rasta Monsta wrote:
Mars478 wrote:
Food for thought, when I have the E-Brake on and the car is running, the brake feel is much, much better.


Like Dan said. . .adjustment problem.


Yep. So I guess next on my list of stuff is drum brake adjustment. Woo
_________________
924, 82, 5 speed, dark red, 500 dollar special.

Daily: 99 ML320, 210k and still trucking.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
jason c  



Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Posts: 1018
Location: Nwi

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mars478 wrote:
Rasta Monsta wrote:
Mars478 wrote:
Food for thought, when I have the E-Brake on and the car is running, the brake feel is much, much better.


Like Dan said. . .adjustment problem.


Yep. So I guess next on my list of stuff is drum brake adjustment. Woo


Or drive with the ebrake on. J/k
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MikesCoupeGT  



Joined: 18 Oct 2006
Posts: 467
Location: Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adjusting the drum brakes really isn't that hard. Two rotating gears on each wheel. Just jack the car off the ground enough so that you can spin the rear wheels and adjust each one so that it stops the wheel from spinning. Then back it off a half a turn. Boom done. Takes about 10 minutes.
_________________
Cheers;
MikesCoupeGT
'76 924
'83 944
''19 Elantra GT N-Line
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
!tom  



Joined: 28 Aug 2006
Posts: 1889
Location: Victoria, BC Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikesCoupeGT wrote:
Adjusting the drum brakes really isn't that hard. ... Boom done. Takes about 10 minutes.

+1
_________________
78 924 NA
5-lug
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    924Board.org Forum Index -> General Discussions All times are GMT + 11 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group