Show full size 924Board.org
Discussion Forum of 924.org
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
 Technical FAQ924 FAQ (Technical)   Technical924 Technical Section   Jump to 924.org924.org   Jump to PCA 924 Registry924 Registry

rusted leaking battery box rebuild completed
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    924Board.org Forum Index -> Body and Interior
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2596
Location: MI

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:48 am    Post subject: rusted leaking battery box rebuild completed Reply with quote

so after cutting all the rust out this is what I'm left with













there is a bit more wire wheeling done after these pics were taken and shop vaced everything everywhere

ill tell ya what, all that cutting/grinding/wheeling in that confined space was not a walk in the park and the hundred or so dings and nicks on my hands prove it.

the inside of that channel looks very good witch I am eternally grateful for

I cant for the life of me come up with a good plan of action to put it back together. I have basically no experience in bodywork. I just don't know what to do...

I don't know if I should weld for rigidity but that would destroy the galvanization on the other side of the wheel well (witch I could get to) and the firewall witch is pretty much inaccessible due to that thick rubber heat shield so then I would just be inviting more rust.

or if I should pop rivet in pieces of aluminum then I would be able to cover back sides of rivets (maybe) with some thick undercoat stuff.

I don't think there is any way I myself could successfully knock up such a complicated shape with lips all around for rivets/welds all in one piece so I would almost definitely have to Frankenstein it in there with multiple pieces overlapped

or maybe I had the idea of getting a chunk of fleece blanket.
trapping it in the drain hole with a cork.
start superglueing it around the outsides of the batt box in a fashion to where it would cover the hole and provide a good drain channel
and then glass resin the entire thing in there solid from the outside and the inside with a ton of glass resin just to create a drainage area then relocate the battery.

but that method wouldn't replace any of the structural rigidity that the original steel had.. not to mention probably crack/split later

I'm at a loss, I'm almost ready to tow it to a body shop but for one im not sure if I trust them to do it right and rust proof it when there done from the back sides and I know I cant afford to have an outstanding job at a body shop as well as the one I already have at the turbo shop

please I would really appreciate some advice as to how to put this back together...

I'm a mechanic, not an artist
_________________
80 Turbo - Slightly Modified


Last edited by Fasteddie313 on Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:25 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15548
Location: Spring Lake MI

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a mechanic, surely you have at least one friend (or friend-of-friend) that knows how to weld? Rather than going to a body shop, why don't you take it to someone who will do the work on the side for a little extra spending money? Cheaper for you, extra beer money for your bud. And if the welder is any good, they'll know how to repair it correctly.

Also, have you considered doing a rear-battery-relocation? It might alleviate some of your concern about structural strength, and it will move 20# or so to the back corner opposite the driver (think: balance). Of course, it does add to the cost and complexity, but now would be the time to consider it...
_________________
erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2596
Location: MI

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

as far as rigidity is concerned, if I relocate the battery to the back do I have to worry about the rigidity of this area for the chassis its self such as torsional stiffness in this area or just rigidity to hold the battery?

if I can just glass in this area creating a good drain channel and rust proof the bare metal that is left I would very happily relocate the battery to the back and be done with it
_________________
80 Turbo - Slightly Modified
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
pcelenta  



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 546
Location: long island,ny

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well it looks like you've got a candidate for the new battery boxes I'm hoping to have made up..but I'm thinking this has to be fixed before we'll have any of these done.
I would suggest contact one of the west coast dismatlers and see if they will cut out a box off a rust free wreck. With the proper prep you should be able to use one of the high tech bonding adhesives to secure most of the battery box and avoid heavy welding...perhaps just a couple of tacks. The manufacturers are using this adhesive today to assemble nearly entire cars. You've cleared away so much of the box already in prep and it seems a shame to Frankenstein it out at this point.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2596
Location: MI

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that would be great if I could get my hands on the car and cut it out myself, anyone know of any parts cars in my area? northern Michigan..

I would pretty much have to cut it out cutting 2 cuts parallel along the firewall and wheel well and not the box floor to retain the lip bend around the outside of the box floor..

if I could get the box floor, channel wall, and chanel floor, with the lip all the way around it it would be ideal but that would be a lot of cutting at 35-50 bucks an hour to have someone else do it

yes I saw your patch panel feeler and that would be a great place to start but I doubt your patch panel would include the channel wall and channel floor.

if I don't have rigidity concerns in the area in question id be happy to glass it with fleece (relocate battery) and then keep my eye out for a parts car with a worthy donation intact for a complete replace at a later time
_________________
80 Turbo - Slightly Modified
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
pcelenta  



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 546
Location: long island,ny

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

when you say channel and channel floor...you mean the piece with the 3 rubber plugs that has the lip that is spot welded to the battery tray...right? I am looking to make that part of a battery box replacement kit. FYI, that chancel is the same on a 944 so you could use one of those as a donor...the tray is different though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2596
Location: MI

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes I mean the inclosed channel that has the 3 plugs on the inside wall..

the floor of that channel is the same one piece of metal as the battery box floor

the battery box floor extends under the channel wall all the way to the wheel well.

if you need any good pictures of whats going on in there id be happy to take all the pictures you want if it would help with your project

my main question..

Does loosing that chunk of that channel and the battery box floor as in my pictures pose any risk to the structural rigidity of the chassis (tortional or otherwise) ignoring any strength lost that is needed to support the battery
_________________
80 Turbo - Slightly Modified
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
pcelenta  



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 546
Location: long island,ny

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it does and I will tell you two reasons why. 1st is that as I cleaned the battery box on my euro 79 turbo I discovered two stress cracks where the box meets the cowl. I will post a pic a shortly. Second I have seen numerous 924 with cracked windshields that begin in the lower section at the bottom of the windshield pilar. Three of my personal cars had this problem and a friends 87 s did too. Clearly they are flexing in this whole area between the cowl and windshield.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2596
Location: MI

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

therefore the only option is to weld in new metal...

If I do that I might as well weld in something like 1/4"x1" beam straps across the bottom to support the battery and more evenly distribute the weight.

Maybe a couple straps from the bottom straps up the channel wall with the plugs too.

but that means gaining access to the front side of the firewall and under the trans tunnel area so it can be properly resealed after the weld destroys all of the the rust protection when it gets white hot.... and the outside of the fender well, and some sort of something sprayed into that channel to prevent rust...

therefore I would have to pull the front right quarter panel, and drop the drive train to get the engine out of the way so I can get that rubber mat off of the fire wall and get to the under side of the transmission tunnel...

that is a whole lot more work than I anticipated

might as well drop the whole rear suspension and the engine onto something that rolls and pull it out from under the back of the car...

shit a few more bolts and I can sell ideola the LSD g31 for more than what I paid for the car.............. and not have to weld anything, and tell the turbo shop they gust got some free core parts

I'm getting a bit overwhelmed here..

if I didn't love this thing it would have been parts last year...
_________________
80 Turbo - Slightly Modified
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
pcelenta  



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 546
Location: long island,ny

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't give up on it yet. The prep work is done. Fabing something from scratch to fit in there is gonna be a lot of work if you don't have the right sheet metal equipment. I would not worry about that inner panel after it's welded. The factory welds burnt the galvanizing too. You can always pump some por15 in from the rubber plugs afterwards. I would check some local junk yards first then search out west. If you are no in a rush I may have a prototype piece done by mid summer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2596
Location: MI

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pcelenta wrote:
With the proper prep you should be able to use one of the high tech bonding adhesives to secure most of the battery box and avoid heavy welding...perhaps just a couple of tacks. The manufacturers are using this adhesive today to assemble nearly entire cars. You've cleared away so much of the box already in prep and it seems a shame to Frankenstein it out at this point.


what sort of bonding adhesives are we talking about here? I was thinking I was going to use the slower curing 3M windshield glue between the places/lips that I pop rivet to make a seal. I would feel much more comfortable glueing and pop riveting because that would leave way less corrosion prone area on the back side making it much less vulnerable later on. smear some thick undercoat over the rivits on the back side.

do you think the combination of aluminum, glue, and rivits would provide the necessary structural support?

I have access to lots of sheet aluminum, junk snowmobile tunnels all over in my area that are ready to cut nice sheets out of.
_________________
80 Turbo - Slightly Modified
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
pcelenta  



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 546
Location: long island,ny

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like wurth panel adhesive. 3m makes a similar product. You want panel adhesive used to attach quarter panels. This stuff is very impressive. Collision test done on it show strength on par with and often better than welds. I would not recommend mixing dissimilar metals like aluminum and steel. Could cause further corrosion. Better with steel I my opinion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2596
Location: MI

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah I watched a 3m youtube video on that stuff, looks like great stuff but super expensive and I would have to buy that special applicator.

what I was thinking of using

3M 08693 black one-part urethane is compatible with glass materials with a 24 hr cure time. Provices a 10 to 15 min working time. Delivers great performance with a shear strength of 550 psi and tensile strength of 1200 psi.


will research the panel adhesive more
_________________
80 Turbo - Slightly Modified
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
pcelenta  



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 546
Location: long island,ny

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Eastwood company has a one part panel adhesive that is less expensive and uses a standard caulking gun. I have the double barrel wurth gun. It wasn't cheap.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 2596
Location: MI

PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.eastwood.com/no-weld-panel-adhesive-replacement.html

300ml for $20 plus s+h?

I guess that's not too horrible
_________________
80 Turbo - Slightly Modified
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    924Board.org Forum Index -> Body and Interior All times are GMT + 10 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group