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Project black 924 :)
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CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1766
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joakim. S takes his monster 931 to 7800 if i remember correctly
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DutchPug  



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 94
Location: the Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@!tom, Thanks for the link. I guess 6500 is good for now with 32 year old springs and lifters.


@ Raceboy, Indeed VE drops quick after 6500, but with the boost ramped up it feels still pretty good at 6500, haha.

Was thinking about a cam upgrade anyway; Catcams seems to have quite a few profiles for the engine. Am not sure if they sold many though... since they can't supply springs and the solid lifters they suggest are 0.5mm smaller than the pocket they have to fit . Recon Ideolas lifters are a better idea.

Here the profiles Catcams offers; http://catcams.co.uk/acatalog/Porsche_924.html
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15511
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DutchPug wrote:
Here the profiles Catcams offers; http://catcams.co.uk/acatalog/Porsche_924.html


Interesting. By turbo conversion, I assume they mean an NA converted to forced induction? So otherwise, not turbo-specific profiles?

Also, I can't tell from their site...are these regrinds, hard-faced, or new billet????
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DutchPug  



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 94
Location: the Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ ideola

The cams are a new grind from a cast blank. Already have the 5220021 here, but am not going to install just yet.

Have tuned the engine as it is on E85... unfortunately at 1 bar some fuel supply issues --> am going to install a larger pump now.

Perhaps interesting to hear, at just 1.0 bar boost pressure the engine already made 248 whp... (compared to 229 at 1.2 bar with normal fuel).

Just hope the 30 year old head gasket won't give in with some more boost... to be continued.
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DutchPug  



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 94
Location: the Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well had to quit at 1.3 bar; voltage of the alternator starts to drop quickly.

The result on 1.2 bar; 274 whp and 354 "w" nm.


Perhaps interesting to see, the upgrade pressure plate compared to a stock one. An extra row of springs 'fingers' have been added.


The plate is a sprung 6 puck sinter.

Surprisingly with this setup the engagement is very smooth... but pedal pressure needed is horrible
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Raceboy  



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2305
Location: Estonia, Europe

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great success!

At 1 bar the results are very consistent with mine when I used toluene mix.

And who could have thought a stock 924 NA euro engine would want to even cope with much higher boost levels, let alone make very good power?

Congrats Pieter!
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'89 944 S2
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 7908
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats !
So from now on, anybody who asks if a 924 NA can be turbocharged the answer is: hell yea !
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Raceboy  



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
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Location: Estonia, Europe

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

morghen wrote:
So from now on, anybody who asks if a 924 NA can be turbocharged the answer is: hell yea !


Umm, it was clear already 5 years ago
I guess everyone thought I was full of BS when I showed the turbocharged 924...
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'83 924 2.5 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 Irish Green hotrod, 2.4S
'89 944 S2
'91 944 S2
'78 924 Carrera GT project
'78 911 SC 2.5 ss Turbo
'82 924S/931 "Gulf", sold
'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 7908
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raceboy wrote:
morghen wrote:
So from now on, anybody who asks if a 924 NA can be turbocharged the answer is: hell yea !


Umm, it was clear already 5 years ago
I guess everyone thought I was full of BS when I showed the turbocharged 924...


You're right, how could i have forgotten?
Maybe some thought that...but not me
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DutchPug  



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 94
Location: the Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tnx, am pretty pleased with the results myself. Think 300+ whp will also be possible on the stock engine, will give it a try when i have upgraded the alternator.
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WEASEL149  



Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 595
Location: UK, Sheffield

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent results Dutchpug. I'm enjoying your thread.

Which Garrett turbo are you running?

The 5220021 cam looks to be a good choice for a turbo. It will be interesting to see the difference using that cam.
It will probably be best to fit that cam with the Sten Parner solid lifters and lash caps. At least then you can increase revs without fear of the lifters breaking up.
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Raceboy  



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
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Location: Estonia, Europe

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swapping hotter cam and lighter tappets would only make sense when opening up the engine, doing a rebuild and putting in ARP rods bolts.

Otherwise just keep it stock and enjoy the power. IMO the result is excellent for relatively low boost pressure, especially considering poor flow of the head. E85 lets the tuner to reach MBT and unleash true potential of the engine.

Have to thank (VW?) engineers for the stout crank, rods and pistons (nevermind that the latter are cast).

Just as a reference, here's my 2.0 turbo dyno plot. It was the 1st setup with just 0.8 bars of boost, graphs are pretty similar, just my turbo was a bit smaller and torque drops a bit faster:

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'83 924 2.5 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 Irish Green hotrod, 2.4S
'89 944 S2
'91 944 S2
'78 924 Carrera GT project
'78 911 SC 2.5 ss Turbo
'82 924S/931 "Gulf", sold
'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 7908
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as i know the engine is Daimler's design and only adapted by VW/Audi/Porsche. It was designed to be a turbo diesel earth mover engine if i remember corectly.
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DutchPug  



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 94
Location: the Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@WEASEL149

Turbo is a GT3071R .86 turbine.


Was first thinking just to install stronger springs and the Sten lifters and try my luck with the bottom end. But... now the plan is rebuilding the spare engine i have from my green 924. Am not going to change the pistons and rods, just upgrade rod bolts.

In my mind this car was supposed to be a relatively cheap quick project with around 300 engine hp so I have a fun 924 while the green one is getting a turbo conversion... Now I've already expanded the plans... and the goal is around 350 whp with the new engine.. but getting custom pistons made is still a bridge to far in my head.

Though a flash went through my mind, am pretty sure I can get custom K1 rods made for around 300 euro a set if I order at least 5 sets. If there are others interested I'm willing to setup that deal. Have done that for other engine models before, worked out fine (just a long waiting time of about 5 months).
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WEASEL149  



Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 595
Location: UK, Sheffield

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DutchPug wrote:
@WEASEL149

Turbo is a GT3071R .86 turbine.

Though a flash went through my mind, am pretty sure I can get custom K1 rods made for around 300 euro a set if I order at least 5 sets. If there are others interested I'm willing to setup that deal. Have done that for other engine models before, worked out fine (just a long waiting time of about 5 months).


Thanks for the turbo info.

I would be interested in a set of K1 rods if you set up a deal. 300 euros is a good price.
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