Show full size 924Board.org
Discussion Forum of 924.org
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
 Technical FAQ924 FAQ (Technical)   Technical924 Technical Section   Jump to 924.org924.org   Jump to PCA 924 Registry924 Registry

My 931 performance mods
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    924Board.org Forum Index -> Performance Upgrades
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
thirdgenbird  



Joined: 29 Feb 2008
Posts: 370
Location: Pella, IA USA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow
_________________
17in caymans, koni yellow coilovers, hypercoil springs, kla solid upper mounts, 968 sway bars, kla drop links, kla strut brace, fidanza flywheel, dansk catback, wilwood front calipers, ss brake lines, e-codes, 944 duckbill, manual rack,momo steering wheel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 7785
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The guy is an artist !
_________________
red 924 and not red 924
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
WEASEL149  



Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 592
Location: UK, Sheffield

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck when you run her on the dyno George. I hope you make lots of power
_________________
1979 UK 932
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GeorgeV  



Joined: 14 Mar 2010
Posts: 301
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

morghen wrote:
The guy is an artist !

He sure is. People tell me welding aluminium is like welding water!
_________________
1981 932 with mods:
http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=37921
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
GeorgeV  



Joined: 14 Mar 2010
Posts: 301
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WEASEL149 wrote:
Good luck when you run her on the dyno George. I hope you make lots of power

Thanks Wes. I hope so too. I think we will all be interested to see what happens with these mods combined with stock internals.
_________________
1981 932 with mods:
http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=37921
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Euro924S2  



Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 165
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome project!! That exhaust Mani is a thing of beauty!!

I'm surprised to hear you ditched the Adaptronic, that's what I'm running with my SC and I've been delighted with the functionality and especially the support by Andy (the inventor). Top auzzie bloke!!

Are you measuring the temperatures Pre and post charge cooler? I would be very interested to hear what they are.... I've just finished making a custom CC for my M90 supercharger and I'm looking forward to how good it is. I've fitted a PWR 5x10 barrel to my brothers supercharged M45 Mazda Miata / mx5 and we have been very impressed, although cooling the water is very important. We found that stacking the radiators really hurt the performance of both as the combined resistance to air flow caused the air to find ways around, rather than through, even with adequate ducting etc. my only concern is with your 3 stacked radiators in a very hot climate, they will all struggle in their respective jobs.

That said, they are all in now so no harm in seeing how it goes. On my car I've gone with a Honda civic all alloy 52mm core with a Austin mini all Ali 56mm rad next to it so the civic does the engine (without any problem in UK summer at 232bhp inc traffic) and the mini one does the charge cooler. Both fit perfectly between our chassis rails side by side. This is the setup I've settled on with my brothers and it was 10*C lower intake charges than the stock Mazda with a 30mm fiat Seciento Rad in front for the charge cooler. The engine was also running hot in summer with the stacked setup. In retrospect, the stock mazda rad was pretty corroded though which will have contributed to resistance to flow.

Anyhow, just my experiences, judging by the appearance of you install if stacked will ever work, your mechanic should be able to make it perform!

Very best of luck with the dyno and keep the info coming....
I've Subscribed....

Cheers. John.
_________________
UK spec '83 N/A with 931 motor with Eaton MP62 'charger @ 15psi. EFI - 565cc inj. Standalone Adaptronic ECU. 951 FMIC. Ally rad. Twin throttle. Recirc valve. Custom manifolds and CAI. 232bhp
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GeorgeV  



Joined: 14 Mar 2010
Posts: 301
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Euro924S2 wrote:
Awesome project!! That exhaust Mani is a thing of beauty!!

I'm surprised to hear you ditched the Adaptronic, that's what I'm running with my SC and I've been delighted with the functionality and especially the support by Andy (the inventor). Top auzzie bloke!!

Are you measuring the temperatures Pre and post charge cooler? I would be very interested to hear what they are.... I've just finished making a custom CC for my M90 supercharger and I'm looking forward to how good it is. I've fitted a PWR 5x10 barrel to my brothers supercharged M45 Mazda Miata / mx5 and we have been very impressed, although cooling the water is very important. We found that stacking the radiators really hurt the performance of both as the combined resistance to air flow caused the air to find ways around, rather than through, even with adequate ducting etc. my only concern is with your 3 stacked radiators in a very hot climate, they will all struggle in their respective jobs.

That said, they are all in now so no harm in seeing how it goes. On my car I've gone with a Honda civic all alloy 52mm core with a Austin mini all Ali 56mm rad next to it so the civic does the engine (without any problem in UK summer at 232bhp inc traffic) and the mini one does the charge cooler. Both fit perfectly between our chassis rails side by side. This is the setup I've settled on with my brothers and it was 10*C lower intake charges than the stock Mazda with a 30mm fiat Seciento Rad in front for the charge cooler. The engine was also running hot in summer with the stacked setup. In retrospect, the stock mazda rad was pretty corroded though which will have contributed to resistance to flow.

Anyhow, just my experiences, judging by the appearance of you install if stacked will ever work, your mechanic should be able to make it perform!

Very best of luck with the dyno and keep the info coming....
I've Subscribed....

Cheers. John.


Thanks for the feedback, John. Adaptronics are fine. We ditched it for the Haltech because it's more commonly known in OZ and more people have experience with them, so if I get stranded somewhere it will be more likely I can get help with ECU. They also have a much bigger support team than anybody else here.

Do you have build thread that shows your radiator setup?

I will post info on temps if I get them. With the stock setup in the middle of summer the intake temp was about 80deg cel!
_________________
1981 932 with mods:
http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=37921
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
GeorgeV  



Joined: 14 Mar 2010
Posts: 301
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the mods are done and the car is running.

Here's the alternator. Went through 3 of these before settling on a race one. The others could not take the heat. Only charges above 1500rpm, so I need to be careful. The alternator sits between the inlet manifold and the AC condenser.




This is the relay for IC pump.

Bigger breather to reduce blowby.


The finished product.


After many hours on the dyno this is the result.


The car goes like a rocket. When you plant your foot, the front lifts like its going to mono and the acceleration is instantaneous and brutal. You can't hold any gear for very long otherwise you hit the rev limiter very easy - mechanic recommends keeping revs to 5000 due to age of the engine. The boost is set at 16psi, but if you plant it it will max out at 19psi as there are no flow restrictions and the wastegate stuggles to limit the boost. Intake temps after the IC are running at about 40deg cel on a 25deg cel day. The coolant temps stay between 85deg and 90deg. It starts first go, idles beautifully and is very easy to drive in a high gear if you're just tootling around town. The increase is low down torque is very noticeable and makes the car very easy to drive when going easy.

I have a few other things to get done but they are just window dressing. I'm also thinking of going to E85 as it will run cooler, which will help with the temps in Brisbane, and mechanic reckons it will probably increase kw to 200. We'll see.

I want to thank everyone on the board for their inspiration. I would never have undertaken such a venture without the mods I've seen done here on the board. I would not recommend my approach unless you're prepared to spend lots of money. Once you go down this approach, you have to change everything. I think I read a post the other day by Morghen saying exactly this, and my experience backs that up.

Cheers,

G
_________________
1981 932 with mods:
http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=37921
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 7785
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its all very nice but i must ask...if you go to the trouble re-designing all those systems like you did...and actually moving the turbo like that...why only make 220hp and 370Nm?

If i did so much work on my car i'd want more power, not because i need it..but because with the factory systems, if you cool it down properly and throw a better turbo you can get more power even with CIS.
So what i'm saying is that this power(if power is what you were after when doing all this) could have been had with alot less time and money spent.

Nevertheless its not all about power and if you enjoy the car as it is...thats all that matters.
_________________
red 924 and not red 924
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1675
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shouldn't be any problems revving it to around 6k, I do it very often on track, works great unless your engine is falling apart

Great that you finally got it on the dyno, the torque curve seems to be strange though, 320Nm at 5800 rpm should be around 260Hp=195kW. But powerwise the power plateu is really wide, a standard 931 with raised boost wouldn't ever get there though..But If the turbo is speced correctly there is a lot of power still left in there if you want more some day

Enjoy the car !
_________________
┤79 924
http://www.garaget.org/show.php?car=211
┤80 924 Turbo
http://www.garaget.org/?car=160275
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
GeorgeV  



Joined: 14 Mar 2010
Posts: 301
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a good question. I was not impressed by the numbers when I saw them, but when I drove the car I was very impressed. Also, different dynos give different numbers. When dynoed in Canberra it got 130kw after the Garrett turbo. When dynod in Brisbane it showed 85kw. Same engine, different ECU (which shouldn't matter), different dyno. Where did the 45kw go? Comparing numbers on the same dyno, it's about a 50% increase. That's not small. So, comparing numbers with other cars on the board it does not look impressive. Driving the car gives a different impression.

As I said before, I do not recommend other people do what I did because it's a lot of work and money, and there are plenty of small mods that can be done to noticeably increase power. I did what I did because I wanted to do it, not because I thought it would be cost-effective.
_________________
1981 932 with mods:
http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=37921
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
DutchPug  



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 94
Location: the Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice results George.

They probably gave you a print with power at the wheels and torque at the flywheel, that is why the torque and power numbers don't add up.

According to your torque figures you have around 256 hp at the engine. That is a substantial increase over stock power output.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Raceboy  



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2292
Location: Estonia, Europe

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would suggest measuring a 1/4 mile trap speed with a Performance Box, RaceChrono or similar (not G-tech), knowing your cars approximate total weight (car+you+fuel) you can calculate pretty accurate result regarding power.

Here's a number of simple calculators, my turbocharged 2.0 euro gave pretty accurate results (total weight ~1300 kg, trap speed 167 km/h, calculator showed ~240 rwhp): http://www.tqhq.ee/dir.php?id=62
_________________
'83 924 2.5 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 Irish Green hotrod, 2.4S
'89 944 S2
'91 944 S2
'78 924
'78 911 SC 2.5 ss Turbo "Martini"
'82 924S/931 "Gulf" racecar, 330 hp, sold
'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
ptheskil  



Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 128
Location: Essex, UK

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Careful, some people on here don't like you using acceleration/speed data to estimate power/torque. I still have the bruises
_________________
1981 931 series2 Euro spec
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Raceboy  



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2292
Location: Estonia, Europe

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So far it is the only method that really shows how the car is performing

Dyno all you want, real life shows if the car is fast or not. Standing mile or km also shows good info.
_________________
'83 924 2.5 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 Irish Green hotrod, 2.4S
'89 944 S2
'91 944 S2
'78 924
'78 911 SC 2.5 ss Turbo "Martini"
'82 924S/931 "Gulf" racecar, 330 hp, sold
'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    924Board.org Forum Index -> Performance Upgrades All times are GMT + 11 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 4 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group