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Bockscar's EFI Ultra-Conversion (Lots-o-pics)
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Bockscar  



Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 392
Location: Sandy, Oregon

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fiat22turbo wrote:
Where all of the water from the windshield flows....


I noticed that. Most of the area where the battery sits was rusted out so we put a piece of aluminum down there. We'll have to rig up a way to protect the thing
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'79 924 - Restoration In Progress
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fiat22turbo  



Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 4040
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe fit a rain deflector at the base of the windshield?

I think that's why VW/Porsche put the panel under the dash to try and protect it from the elements. Bosch just dropped the ball with piss-poor connectors and Porsche with poor battery placement.
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1979 924 Carrera GTS (clone-ish)
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Bockscar  



Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 392
Location: Sandy, Oregon

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fiat22turbo wrote:
Maybe fit a rain deflector at the base of the windshield?

I think that's why VW/Porsche put the panel under the dash to try and protect it from the elements. Bosch just dropped the ball with piss-poor connectors and Porsche with poor battery placement.


Pfft. Lots of cars have the fuses and relays under the hood. My old 900 had the most brilliantly laid out fuse and relay box located in the fender well. BMW's generally keep those under there too. If you're looking at the battery box, there is clearly plenty of room of fuses and relays as long as you don't use a massive battery. All of the VW's I've driven have the fuse boxes located under the dash like on the Porsche; it's clearly a carry over from the old VW design. My '92 Jetta had a very similar fuse box and used the same fuses.

I think it will be an easy-enough fix. For my old MS setup, I drilled a hole in the firewall behind the battery box so if I don't seal up the battery box area, water may leak into the cabin
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Bockscar  



Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 392
Location: Sandy, Oregon

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the status of the heater core. It appears to be leaking at the joint; the gasket must have failed. We replaced it with a paper gasket with silicone. If your heater core is leaking, this is likely where it is leaking.


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Bockscar  



Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 392
Location: Sandy, Oregon

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been a while since I've posted anything. That's primarily due to the fact that I just haven't taken any pictures of anything lately. The engine is pretty much ready to be bolted back into the engine bay. We've finished fabricating a mount for the hall sensor which I'll post a picture shortly.

Also, I made a spreadsheet of all of the consumer oriented (read: not professional) available ECUs on the market and I've decided on MicroSquirt. MicroSquirt was originally developed with Motorcycles and ATVs in mind but now that MS3 can comfortably drive up to 12+ injectors simultaneously , MegaSquirt seems overkill for something as moderate as a simple 4cyl turbo. The latest version of Microsquirt (updated in 2012) has the ability to drive 4 injectors and 2 ignition modules which allows for a wasted spark configuration.

Here's the package I bought. Can't get much cheaper than $330 for an engine control unit http://www.ebay.com/itm/Megasquirt-Microsquirt-V3-Version-3-EFI-Controller-w-3ft-harness-FREE-O2-sensor-/110947185253?pt=Race_Car_Parts&vxp=mtr&hash=item19d4f7b265
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Bockscar  



Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 392
Location: Sandy, Oregon

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Using an ignition amplifier from a Volvo and an ignition coil from a Mitsubishi Eclipse, and a dwell angle of 9ms, this is the result!


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Bockscar  



Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 392
Location: Sandy, Oregon

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been a while since my last update! There has been some ups and downs but finally, the engine is back in the car, the fuel rail and injectors are mounted, and the coils and sensors are placed and wired. The engine is running! Kind of. I'm running into timing issues, I think. It could be a fuel issue too but, I'm not really sure at this point. That's what tuning is all about!

I'd like to take some time and talk about my EFI setup because it is vastly different than the other setups here.

1) The EMS unit is MICROSquirt using the MSExtra firmware.
2) The Fuel Injectors are Bosch "Green Top" 42lbs injectors (overkill, I know!)
3) The Throttle Position Sensor is some Korean unit from a 2001 Hyundai Accent.
4) The Fuel Rail is a modified rail from a 2002 Dodge Neon. This rail was modified in two ways. First, we had to cut off the existing mounting brackets because the stock brackets do NOT fit. Second, I had to drill a hole on one end of the rail because the stock rail is a non-return type. Non-return rails should not be used with custom EFI systems.
5) The MAP Sensor (MicroSquirt does not have an internal MAP sensor) is from a 90s Grand Prix.
6) The Coolant and Intake Air Temp sensors are the standard GM types. I had to drill two holes in the engine for these to fit. No way around it.
7) The ignition is a hybrid wasted spark system that uses two coils from a 90s Eagle Talon and two coil ignitors from two different Volvo 8 series sedans.

I would also like to point out for people who may be new to EFI solutions, there is no right way of doing it. And by extension, you won't find a "how to" guide and shouldn't follow one if you find one. Even across 924's you should fine the solution that works the best for you. Most folks here on the forum use Ford's EDIS and MegaSquirt 2. That is just one method of EFI. Read all of the documentation and ask lots of questions before you settle on one thing. Also, my EFI setup over all cost me about $600.
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Bockscar  



Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 392
Location: Sandy, Oregon

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got it working! It turns out there were 4 problems. Learn from my mistakes! There were very simple:

1. The firing order is 1342. This is important for both injection and ignition. I had my ignition system firing 1342, however my injection was firing something like 3214. Whoops.
2. One of my injector wires broke a wire. This is a pain to diagnose. Double check all your wires when there is trouble!
3. My grounds were very bad. I had one ground from the battery to the head, near the distributor. That was bad move. We used a strap to ground from the battery, to the engine, and back to the chassis.
4. The battery was below optimal. Make sure your battery is charged and and has a battery charger on it when you are testing. When your battery is low, the ignition system's spark is sub par.

All in all, I think the project has been quite a success. I bought this car in non-working condition several years ago. The CIS system was in severe disrepair so I tried MS1. I made a few critical mistakes so I started over again with MicroSquirt (which is basically MS2). This time, it worked great.

You and check out a video of the engine running here. Don't mind the mess of wires or the white smoke.. This is the first time the car has run EVER! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3IiNATTISI&list=UUxUs-X6RjWYNHbLtCPfvaTQ
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WEASEL149  



Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 595
Location: UK, Sheffield

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations dude. I've been reading your posts for a while. It's great that you finally got it running
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Bockscar  



Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 392
Location: Sandy, Oregon

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks!

Here's where I'm at so far. I think I have the crank pulse width figured out. I'm running high-ish fuel pressure (between 40 and 50lbs) and my injectors are those big ol' Bosch monsters rated at 42lbs. Everywhere you read will tell you to use the default fuel map and settings. My default crank pulse width was around 300% of my ReqFuel value, which is roughly 9ms. Using the preset value of 300%, the car refused to do anything but sputter and smoke; no cranking and no idling. I dropped the crank pulse width down to about 110 and pow, the engine now passes the crank phase and moves happily into the warm up enrichment phase. I don't know if it is our engine or my fuel setup but at 300% pulse width for cranking, my engine was flooding.

Other than figuring out how much air/fuel the engine needs to idle at a reasonable RPM, I am battling with my timing. I'm curious to know how the other EFI guys here on the forum have theirs set. The location I've mounted the hall sensor is right below the alternator. Keeping in mind that our engines rotate clockwise and the missing tooth is as close to TDC as possible, I'm counting 28 teeth before tooth #1. Is that about what everyone else is using?
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Grenadiers  



Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 3224
Location: Nelson, WI & Prescott, AZ

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a 36-1 wheel, the sensor is 9 teeth before the missing tooth at TDC. Doesn't matter physically if the missing tooth lines up with your TDC marks on crank pulley. Just that relationship is important. See the Megamanual under EDIS for more information.
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15511
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 to above...

I'm no expert in this, but here's my understanding: when the crank is at TDC, by default, the missing tooth should be 90 degrees offset from the VR sensor. Since the default EDIS setup is 90 degrees, most of the open source variants use this as a default setting. This is convenient, as the 36-1 trigger wheel will have teeth every ten degrees, so you just count off 9 teeth and that tells you how to orient your trigger wheel relative to the VR sensor when the crank is at TDC.

MegaSquirt allows you to enter an offset so you can have the VR sensor and missing tooth anywhere you want it (in multiples of 10 degrees). I don't believe that MegaJolt has a provision for offset, and I'm not sure if Microsquirt does or not.
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Arvidw  



Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 227
Location: The Nederlands (Europe)

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grenadiers wrote:
On a 36-1 wheel, the sensor is 9 teeth before the missing tooth at TDC


It is easy to interpret this definition incorrectly, a more solid definition would be:

The missing tooth passes the sensor 90dg before TDC.

Here a very nice paint sketch of someone to clarify:

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Grenadiers  



Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 3224
Location: Nelson, WI & Prescott, AZ

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps. However, when adjusting the VR sensor while engine is in car, counting the the number of teeth is a good hands-on method. I painted my wheel black, and said 9th tooth is a tooth of a different color!
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Bockscar  



Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 392
Location: Sandy, Oregon

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, this is what I am not understanding here. Disclaimer: I am not a expert when it comes to timing cars so in all respects, I know very little on this topic.

There are but two facts here that confuse me:

A. The crankshaft on our engines rotate clockwise. If you look at the crank, from the top (TDC), it will rotate to the right.
B. The hall sensor is placed to the right of the crankshaft pulley

Given these two facts, doesn't this mean that the sensor is placed after top dead center? Because since the engine is rotating clockwise, it will have already hit top dead center by the time it passes the hall sensor. A location BTDC would be to the left of the crankshaft and on our cars, that is impossible. Also, I am not running EDIS so the arbitrary number of "9 teeth" means nothing to me since I can change the tooth #1 angle by hand (MegaSquirt 2 and MicroSquirt are identical).

For what it's worth, if you saw the video I posted, the engine was running with tooth #1 angle set to 212.
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