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canyonblaster
Joined: 20 Aug 2012 Posts: 390 Location: Denver, CO, USA
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Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:13 pm Post subject: Hello, I found a 931 garage queen today. PPI?'s inside... |
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Hey brothers, great forum here. So glad I found you!
Special thank you to Peter for moderating what appears to be the best 924 specialist board on the web.
I am a long time Porsche and german car lover and owner. I lived in Germany as a kid. I am a 10 year Rennlist paid member under same name "Canyonblaster." Maybe some of you and I are alreay forum buddies. I am a PCA DE instructor and own a 2005 GT3, 2001 BoxsterS, and my DD is a 2008 Cayenne GTS.
OK - to the point: I have always wanted to have a go with owning and enjoying a 931. I found a total garage queen this weekend locally and am likely to buy it. I secured first right of refusal today.
1982 model, orignal owners who bought it new locally (really nice 70 year old couple), 31K miles, no major repairs or paint work. White on tan cloth. I have a scan of the widow sticker/pdf (how do I attach that here?). It is a total survivor!
The issues:
1. they drove it every few weeks or so the last few years up until approx a year ago. and now it doesn't start (owner is a pilot, has kept it charged and the battery is recent). they did get the gas tank cleaned a few months ago and did have new fuel pumps installed (almost $3K receipt). It still won't start. We shot a little NAPA starter fluid into it today and it ran for 20 seconds, sounded just fine, the engine has never been opened (only has total original 31K miles/engine bay looks great).
2. it needs four fresh tires. they are all rotted.
3. A/C doesn't blow cold.
4. so, really the only bummer is I can't drive it.
would you buy this car for $3,500? _________________ PCA Licensed Club Racer & Driving Instructor, Current cars: 1981 931, 2005 996 GT3, 2013 Cayenne GTS |
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morghen
Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 8868 Location: Romania
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Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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if you have the money to buy it and keep it fresh, buy it in a heart beat they are great cars if not messed with by "tuners" _________________ https://www.the924.com |
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DouglasM
Joined: 15 Jul 2012 Posts: 19 Location: Surrey, UK
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:25 am Post subject: |
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I just resurrected one that was far worse and it was relatively simple and very enjoyable. What can you buy for that sort of dosh? Just go for it, if you can spanner on it yourself you wont regret it....
-D |
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15548 Location: Spring Lake MI
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:42 am Post subject: |
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If it's truly an original, one-owner car with only 31K miles, then yes, I'd say it's worth it even in non-running condition. Not likely that the car has been tampered with by the current owner, so it should be relatively easy (although perhaps not cheap, depending on what is amiss) to bring back to full operational condition.
Here are two threads you should read about troubleshooting and repairing 931s:
931 Resuscitation - how to resurrect a long-dead turbo
A Systematic Approach to 931 Diagnostics _________________ erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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canyonblaster
Joined: 20 Aug 2012 Posts: 390 Location: Denver, CO, USA
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:33 am Post subject: |
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thanks guys.
Yes, it is a true one owner, 31K miles. This nice couple bought it new from the dealer a few blocks away. It is a real survivor/garage quenn. THey never even had any kids. It has barely had anything but oil changes, etc.. It still has the original timing belt and water pump (It will definitely need a belt service right away, to be safe, correct?)
I am making arrangments to get it to the nearby porsche only specialty shop to get the fuel issue sorted/get it running and a PPI, incl estimate for the belt service and to get the A/C blowing cold.
I will report back.
How do we attach images on this board - I have pics and a copy of the widow sticker? _________________ PCA Licensed Club Racer & Driving Instructor, Current cars: 1981 931, 2005 996 GT3, 2013 Cayenne GTS |
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15548 Location: Spring Lake MI
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:54 am Post subject: |
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Word to the wise: your local Porsche dealership may have no idea what to do with that particular car, and will likely grossly overcharge you for the service.
The timing belt is very simple to do, any competent VW shop can source the parts and probably do it for a fraction of what the dealer will charge you. But YES, you should absolutely have that done before you attempt any further starting/restoration issues.
The biggest issue you may have with this car is getting it started. It is a Series 2 car, meaning that it has the DITC (Digital Ignition & Timing Control) setup. In short, this setup has a completely unique crank reference sensor. If that sensor is bad, the car will not start.
In my opinion, the very first thing you should do is ask whomever is going to do the PPI to verify that the crank reference sensor is functioning according to the Factory Service Manual. If the person doing the inspection doesn't know how to do this, find someone who does. You could be looking for a while.
There are very few people who know and understand the DITC setup (including at the dealership), and until you eliminate the entire DITC system as a variable, you could end up throwing tons of money at trial and error parts replacement (even when using the dealership). I can't stress this enough. You need to eliminate DITC as the source of the starting problem before you do ANYTHING ELSE on trying to get it started.
The DITC setup is very rare and unique to the 931 S2. To my knowledge, there were no other Porsches that used it, so even the dealer may struggle with diagnosis and repair. If the crank reference sensor fails its test, you will be very hard pressed to find another unit because they are NLA from Porsche, and good used units are rare as hen's teeth. I have two on the shelf to act as spares between my three DITC-equipped cars, and NO, I will not part with any of the spares!
Not to scare you off of this car...but you need to be aware of what you could be in for. Hopefully, the DITC system is not the culprit, and some simple troubleshooting and diagnostics should help isolate the problem. For more education on the DITC crank reference issue: http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=36610 _________________ erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15548 Location: Spring Lake MI
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:57 am Post subject: |
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canyonblaster wrote: | How do we attach images on this board |
How to post pics on this board _________________ erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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canyonblaster
Joined: 20 Aug 2012 Posts: 390 Location: Denver, CO, USA
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:26 am Post subject: |
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ideola,
Thanks for these tips! much appreciated!
BTW - not going to stealership...I am much more savvy longtime porsche owner than that. Only reason not taking it to my local porsche independant shop is the car is in a nearby town, and the shop I am going to take it to there is the highest regarded p-car only shop there. It is luckily just a few blocks from this car. I spoke to that shop owner and he sounded really cool and not at all afraid of this car, but interestingly, he did not mention this specific part & issue that you do. I will ask him to start there.
I have also got car's owner to agree to all of this PRE purchase. I need to know what I am getting inot before I buy it. Even tho it is such a low mile unmolested example, I do know that these 931 cars are quirky, but obviously having help from you and this board is awesome.
much thanks! _________________ PCA Licensed Club Racer & Driving Instructor, Current cars: 1981 931, 2005 996 GT3, 2013 Cayenne GTS |
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15548 Location: Spring Lake MI
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Anxious to see what you learn and to see pix of the car! Please keep us updated! _________________ erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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Raceboy
Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 2326 Location: Estonia, Europe
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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Regarding S2 flywheel sensor, one can always source a similar replacement VR sensor that has similar impedance and is long enough to reach the flywheel. May require enlarging the hole and/or adjusting the gap with shims but it works. _________________ '83 924 2.6 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 2.4S hotrod
'90 944 S2 Cabriolet
'78 924 Carrera GT replica
'84 928 S, sold
'91 944 S2, sold
'82 924S/931 "Gulf", sold
'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche |
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Cedric
Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 2600 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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Once working Ive found the DITC very reliable and makes the engine rund smooth and nice idle. The flywheel sensor is not so impossible to find(maybe not so easy to find it if you need one in a short time frame though ), there is always some cars parted out on ebay. I bought a spare DITC "computer" on ebay.co.uk for not so much money.
I hope you can get it runnning, its no space age tech Seems like a real nice example..
IF you can handle a swedish site, try www.forumbilder.se for uploading pics. No registration, no fuss, choose pic, upload and then done, paste the link here _________________ 1980 924 Turbo
www.instagram.com/garagecedric/ |
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morghen
Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 8868 Location: Romania
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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if the timing belt is 30 years old DO NOT EVEN TURN THE ENGINE again until you replace it. Like Dan said, its an easy job for any competent vw mechanic.
Check if there is spark, if yes then check for fuel and fuel pressure(buy CIS tester from Dan) - if the pumps work- [if pumps dont work search the forum for fuel pump relay jumping to see if the relay is dead or the pumps are dead]
Clean the DITC connector with contact spray, clean the coil connectors, clean the transistorial module connection on the driver's side front wheel well. then crank again.
if they drove it until a few years ago the car should start...especially if has a DITC. my car has been sitting for the last two years and it fired right up when everything was at its place _________________ https://www.the924.com |
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canyonblaster
Joined: 20 Aug 2012 Posts: 390 Location: Denver, CO, USA
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15548 Location: Spring Lake MI
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:55 am Post subject: |
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You have to put in the URL to the image and then embed it in the [IMG] tags. Like this:
Code: | [img]http://www.forumbilder.se/images/041201253915P7c63.jpg[/img] |
The URL that points to the image MUST end in a .jpg or .gif extension to work on this forum (this forum's software has been configured to restrict to those to file types, presumably as a security precaution).
Like this:
_________________ erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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canyonblaster
Joined: 20 Aug 2012 Posts: 390 Location: Denver, CO, USA
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Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:11 am Post subject: |
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I think I got it figured out....
[/img]
_________________ PCA Licensed Club Racer & Driving Instructor, Current cars: 1981 931, 2005 996 GT3, 2013 Cayenne GTS
Last edited by canyonblaster on Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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