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EA827 Swap: Build Thread
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Sunset924  



Joined: 30 May 2017
Posts: 44
Location: PA, USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:03 am    Post subject: EA827 Swap: Build Thread Reply with quote

Background to this car and swap decision can be found here: (lots of pictures)

http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=43919

Goal: To configure the 924 to accept an engine from the VW/Audi EA827 family without welding, drilling, or otherwise altering the chassis on the vehicle.

Engine: Engine options will include 1.5 to 1.8l 8v gas engines, 2.0 aba and aeg, 1.8t, 16v, 1.9l tdi diesel, 1.6l diesel, just to name a few. The focus will be on configuring the 924 to accept this engine platform. I have several blocks i will be using for mock up, a final engine has yet to be selected.

Plan: Use of a BX platform (Volkswagen fox) transmission to fabricate a bell housing to torque tube. Why? BX platforms are longitudinal like the 924, they use the same throw out bearing and cable mechanism as the 924. The bell housing portion will be cut from the transmission and a plate welded and machined to affix the torque tube. Issues such as engine angle, motor mounts, exhaust, oil pan, pilot bearing, starter, clutch, flywheel, etc will all (hopefully) worked out in the thread as the progress continues. I am hoping the end result will provide enough information to enable this swap to be duplicated if desired.

I will update this thread as time allows, thanks for tuning in!



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nickthompson  



Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 873
Location: Central Georgia

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If i had it to do over again i would have done an ABA 16v hybrid for my engine.
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Sunset924  



Joined: 30 May 2017
Posts: 44
Location: PA, USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nickthompson,

What a great combination for forced induction... drove a rabbit with this combo and it surprised me how brutal it was. Then you add in the relative simplicity of that combo vs 1.8t (electronics, cam chain tensioner issues, etc) and its a winner. I am certainly leaning to an older engine within the family; cost of ownership and simplicity mean alot, part of the reason a 924 2.0na was purchased over a 944 for me. Did you end up finishing your swap? any pointers or pitfalls you can advise / warn me on? Thanks!

Today was productive:

Engine out of the fox so I was able to compare the bell housing end to whats in place in the 924. This is looking more and more promising...

#1 The vw transmission input shaft is the same diameter and spline count as the 924 drive shaft (this includes pilot bearing diameter) Perfect! this will simply slide right into a vw Fox clutch, pressure plate and pilot bearing, no modifications necessary.

#2 providing i do not have to clock the motor more than the original ea827 20 degrees in order to clear the hood of the 924, the clutch release arm will end up in the exact same location as the original, and furthermore the 924 clutch cable end fits on the vw fox arm, no modifications necessary. Bonus: throw out bearing is the same part number!

#3 the starter in the fox arrangement sits forward of the bell housing (hugging the engine block on the right side) in the exact location as the original; no sheet metal modification necessary to clear a starter.

Next will be removing the Vw fox trans and taking comparative measurements to ensure correct driveshaft to engine depth, gutting the trans, cutting the trans, surfacing on the mill, and fabrication of an an adapter plate





vw fox:



924

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nickthompson  



Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 873
Location: Central Georgia

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a 1.8t in mine. I reused the factory oil cooler which was clogged and distroyed my engine. I was pissed, pulled all the custom parts i made out and sold the whole thing. Now it has a 2.3 10v I5 from an 89 Audi 90.
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Sunset924  



Joined: 30 May 2017
Posts: 44
Location: PA, USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh, sorry to hear that. Had an Audi 100 with that engine, really liked it. With regards to mating the engine to the torque tube: what did you find was most difficult? Any tips I could learn from?
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nickthompson  



Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 873
Location: Central Georgia

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the 1.8? It was a pain and it was easy at the sametime. I used a bellhousing from the 99 Passat the engine came from. It was an auto so it was a solid piece, I cut it off and welded an aluminum plate to it. If my cousin wasn't a professional welder the whole thing qould have cost me a fortune. The hardest part was wiring the computer to work with the 924. I used a diagram i found on the internet but it waa wrong so i had to pay someone to do it.
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Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 307
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nickthompson wrote:
I had a 1.8t in mine. I reused the factory oil cooler which was clogged and distroyed my engine. I was pissed, pulled all the custom parts i made out and sold the whole thing. Now it has a 2.3 10v I5 from an 89 Audi 90.


Where is the build thread on that ?
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8016
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Horizonblue wrote:
nickthompson wrote:
I had a 1.8t in mine. I reused the factory oil cooler which was clogged and distroyed my engine. I was pissed, pulled all the custom parts i made out and sold the whole thing. Now it has a 2.3 10v I5 from an 89 Audi 90.


Where is the build thread on that ?


+1
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nickthompson  



Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 873
Location: Central Georgia

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's no build thread, mostly because I'm lazy. It's too much work to do long post on this board when my only internet connection is through my phone. It's a weird build. Instead of CIS i used a TBI from a 91 Camaro, the ignition is MSD. As most people already know the I5 is close enough to bolt up to the stock bellhousing.
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Sunset924  



Joined: 30 May 2017
Posts: 44
Location: PA, USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update:

Transmission removed from the fox, gutted case and prepped for the band saw.






Ended up deciding on doing 2 unorthodox engine swaps simultaneously; so the progress will be equally slow on both

And since i had a 350 / th350 laying around and a VW Fox without a drive line, it made perfect sense to combine the 2. I did not want this 350 in the 924 because of the weight, as well as the torque figures that my 4 speed and drive shaft will not handle. 350 (roughly 400hp), converting from FWD to rwd with a gm 10 bolt rear 4 linked for the fox.



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Sunset924  



Joined: 30 May 2017
Posts: 44
Location: PA, USA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Progress:

Getting ready to machine the Fox transmission, one step closer to having a complete bell housing:



Ended up picking up (3) jh solid lifter head 1.8l engines local for $50, beginning the build on one of them now:

JH 1.8l short block rebuilt and painted:



Solid lifter head in the process of being ported and polished:



I have done a few low boost FI conversions on these 8v motors in the past, I am thinking this may be the way to go here as well. 6-8psi should put this engine right around 170hp.
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gegge  



Joined: 27 Jul 2007
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Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I missing something here? Swaping a 2.0l crossflow for a 1.8l counterflow?
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Sunset924  



Joined: 30 May 2017
Posts: 44
Location: PA, USA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gegge,

You are absolutely correct. May sound crazy, but in my neck of the woods rebuild parts for the 2.0 are ether unobtainable or priced out of the ball park. My goals are to drive and enjoy the car. Having a readily available parts support for an economical price makes perfect sense to me... I plan on keeeping this 924 for quite some time to come.

My main goal of this project was to adapt the 924 so engines of the ea827 bolt pattern can be utilized. This opens up the window for the vw 2.0 crossflow engines, 16v engines, 1.8t, even diesel options (not to mention the plethora of 8v conterflow engines out there). These are all Options that A weigh approximately the same as the original power plant, B poses approximately the same physical size (or smaller) C produce the same amount of power or more as the original engine D are much more receptive to modification with well charted paths and best of all E are available in very junk yard around for practaly scrap price... and I have quite a history with this engine platform building several in the past. itís a win win in my books.

Why the lowly 1.8 counterflow at this point? Because it produces slightly more power than the stock engine, and I found 3 within an hr drive of me for around $20usd each (all because we have a strong vw community locally stemmming partially from the fact the former westmoreland vw plant is here) and itís quite popular to swap these for the aba, vr6, tdi, and 1.8t. These are just boat anchors to most.

A simple non intercooled turbo setup (tdo4, Audi turbo WUR, recurved distributor and 1 step colder on the plugs $200 worth of parts) it will be at the same power level as a stock 931... all on a $20 engine that can be easily replaced or full rebuild kits purchased for less than $250. Now thatís piece of mind that will let me drive the heck out of this car.

I plan on building all 3 engines and going FI (shooting for 170hp) for well under the cost of rebuilding my 95hp stock 2.0. Should make the car at least able to keep up with modern traffic, and greatly improve the driving experience while lowering my long term cost of ownership.
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nickthompson  



Joined: 26 Mar 2013
Posts: 873
Location: Central Georgia

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a video of my 10v i5 swap first start up.

https://youtu.be/WheejHW8Lvg
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8016
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The swap is quite interesting and i follow with enthusiasm but you keep talking about rebuild costs.
I would like to tell you that i have owned 924s for 15 years i never needed an engine rebuild...of any kind.
The 924 2L engine is a tank and you must do something very wrong so that it needs a rebuild.
I'm quite sure the 1.8 from vw is very good as well but again...how long have you been keeping one car in one way so that it actually got to need a rebuild?
How often do you do rebuilds that costs is so important?
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