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Straight six engine in a 924
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the_mad_electrician  



Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1073
Location: Central Georgia

PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can get a custom oil pickup and give yourself a lot more room. http://majica.net/JNR/major.htm there's a link to a Miata that is using a FWD Mazda V6 that might give some ideas on oil pan mods. You can see they have a much lower profile on their oil pickup. This is one of things I ran across while reaching the possability of running a 1.8T with a front oil pump.
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81 924 N/A

2004 Ranger "Edge"

2005 Mazda 6
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Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 307
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Made a little progress on the project today. I have been thinking about what carburetor I could use, that could fit in the narrow space, so it could be possible to make the engine run and take a test ride.

It came to my mind, that all the external components on the original carburetor isn't really needed for a few test rides. I can live without the electric choke and the vacuum pull unit for the secondary throttle valve. So I stripped the carb completly, and now it is really small.

There is still not enough space, for mounting it in the original position, but if I turn it 90░, it fits.



I will make an adaptorplate, so it can be mounted in this position.



The only downside, which I can live with for the test runs, is that it will only be possible to run with the primary throttle valve.

When this 2 barrel carburetor is turned 90░, you can imagine what happens. Off course, it could be possible to make an adaptor piece, that allows the operation of both valves, but that will take some height, which I don't have.

And as said before, for a test run, the primary throttle valve is ok. When I was driving normal, with the original engine, I hardly ever used more than the primary throttle valve.
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Euro 924, 1976

"If you can't fix it, don't break it"

/P.G. Andersen


Last edited by Horizonblue on Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:11 am; edited 2 times in total
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FJ40Jim  



Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 26
Location: Central Ohio, USA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the engine actually bolted in?
Do you have more info on BH adapter, clutch operation, etc?
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Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 307
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FJ40Jim wrote:
Is the engine actually bolted in?
Do you have more info on BH adapter, clutch operation, etc?


Yes, the engine is bolted onto the bellhousing right now, no need for an adaptor plate

The clutch is not operational yet. Here is how it looks.


As you can see, the drive shaft is not engaged into the pilot bearing. I will figure something out for the testrun. I didn't measure if the diameter of the driveshaft is smaller than the bearing inside. Hopefully it is, cause then maybe I can fabricate a bushing, where the original 924 pilotbearing can be pressed into, and this assembly can then be pressed into the crankshaft, protruding a bit, so it can support the driveshaft.

Another option is to simply fabricate a bushing of brass, with the correct dimensions and press that one into the crankshaft. This solution will have a limited lifetime, but it is only for testing.

I can use the original 924 clutch plate, along with the 6 cylinder pressure plate. I just have to find out if the thickness of the 924 clutch plate and the 6 cylinder clutch plate is the same.

The clutch plate is not fully engaged onto the splines of the driveshaft, because the driveshaft is a bit too short, as it can be seen in the picture. I have calculated that the clutch plate goes 16 mm(5/8 inch) in over the splines of the driveshaft. For the testrun it is ok, but no burning rubber.....

This clutch thing is off course not a long term solution. IF the 6 cylinder engine is the way to go for me, I will probably have to replace the gearbox with a 944 N/A gearbox, which has a taller gearing. I will then move the driveshaft in the torque tube a bit forward, so the splines can engage fully, and fabricate a longer coupler between the driveshaft and the gearbox.

At we speak, I don't have any idea on if the original arm in the bell housing can release the clutch.

When I take the engine out for custombuilding the oil pan, I will find out if it works, or a special solution is needed here.
_________________
Euro 924, 1976

"If you can't fix it, don't break it"

/P.G. Andersen


Last edited by Horizonblue on Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 307
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finished the carburetor adapter today.



As you can see, I have placed the bolt pattern/carb at an angle. This is to give more space for the throttle linkage/cable. I will only be able to run on the primary throttle valve, but the diameter is approx the same as the primary on the 924 throttle housing, so for testing that's fine for me.



Plenty of space for the throttle cable and a special made bracket(next job).



Finally on with the original 6 cyl carburetor intake cover.


I have purchased a Turbo exhaust manifold from the diesel version of the engine(Ebay), waiting for the postman....
This manifold is more compact that the two piece manifold that is on the engine now.

_________________
Euro 924, 1976

"If you can't fix it, don't break it"

/P.G. Andersen


Last edited by Horizonblue on Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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FJ40Jim  



Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 26
Location: Central Ohio, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Horizonblue wrote:
Yes, the engine is bolted onto the bellhousing right now, no need for an adaptor plate

The clutch is not operational yet. Here is how it looks.



As you can see, the drive shaft is not engaged into the pilot bearing.

Looks very promising.

For the pilot bearing depth issue, Audi came up with a solution. On some 5cyl cars, the pilot bearing is in the back of the crankshaft (what I think of as a normal location).
On other cars, the flywheel is thicker and the pilot bearing is pressed into the center of the FW.
Unfortunately, I don't know which cars have which configuration, but the second one may be an easy solution.
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Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 307
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FJ40Jim wrote:


Looks very promising.

For the pilot bearing depth issue, Audi came up with a solution. On some 5cyl cars, the pilot bearing is in the back of the crankshaft (what I think of as a normal location).
On other cars, the flywheel is thicker and the pilot bearing is pressed into the center of the FW.
Unfortunately, I don't know which cars have which configuration, but the second one may be an easy solution.


Thanks for this information, I have never heard of that before, but why not....

I will finish the carburetor linkage now, and after that I will pull the engine out, and do these jobs:

1. Modify the oil pan

2. Fabricate an adaptor for an alternator pulley in the front of the engine. The original 6 cylinder pulley is a large bastard, with three V-grooves, and 4 studs pointing forward (for mounting a fan). I just need a single pulley, preferably PolyVee, and space in front of the engine, for a new electric fan(flat model).

3. Bracket for an Omron proximity switch(near the pulley on the cranckshaft), which will feed the tachometer with two 12 volt + signals per engine rotation.

4. Make the clutch operational. I have a transaxle laying around, which can be bolted onto the engine, when it's out of the car. Then it should be possible to work something out, regarding pilot bearing and clutch arm.
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Euro 924, 1976

"If you can't fix it, don't break it"

/P.G. Andersen
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FRporscheman  



Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 16
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is awesome! It has the same bellhousing bolt pattern, and (barely) fits in the engine bay! What's the displacement on the engine, did I miss that?

I like the name Horizon Blue, I have a HB 968 coupe.
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'93 968
'84 944
82 MB 300td
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Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 307
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Originally I was looking into using the Volkswagen VR6 engine, but there is a bellhousing/starter issue then, lots of fabrication is needed. This engine bolts right on, the starter is in the original position, clutch only needs minor modification(compared to the VR6) and this engine is quite simple, as the original 924 engine; single overhead camshaft, belt driven, no fancy DOHC engine. Just the way I like it

The displacement is 2.4 Litre (147 Cui)

It needs more power, has only 90 HP..... But as mentioned earlier, the main focus is to get the car on the road, with this engine, and see how it feels to drive a "926". I'm only doing what's necessary to make it run now. When I have driven it this season, I will decide if I will keep it. If so, the engine is taken out again and gets the parts it deserves, EFI and probably Turbo. The compression ratio is 8:1, so no need to do something internally for the turbo.

The engine should be fresh, low milage, so I'm not going to take it apart. Will do a compression test off course.

Horizonblue(.dk) is the name of my website(no Porsches, only boats). It is written in my native language(danish) so you probably don't understand much of it.
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Euro 924, 1976

"If you can't fix it, don't break it"

/P.G. Andersen
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Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 307
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Received the Turbomanifold today and mounted it on the engine, while it's still in the car, just for checking clearance. I fits perfect.

Original 6 cyl manifold (2 piece)


Turbodiesel manifold


As it can be seen, there is much more clearance to the bodywork. And it is easier to mount a turbo in the future.

Here is the linkage for the throttle.


The cable is a brake cable from a bicycle, should be ok for testing......

Now on the fabricating a bracket for the choke.
_________________
Euro 924, 1976

"If you can't fix it, don't break it"

/P.G. Andersen


Last edited by Horizonblue on Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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the_mad_electrician  



Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1073
Location: Central Georgia

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you considered using a GM or GM style trottle body injection? It might possibly bolt were the carb goes.
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81 924 N/A

2004 Ranger "Edge"

2005 Mazda 6
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Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 307
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the_mad_electrician wrote:
Have you considered using a GM or GM style trottle body injection? It might possibly bolt were the carb goes.


Actually, I was thinking about using a Bosch MonoMotronic injection. This is used on a lot of older VW cars. On the junkyard, it should be possible to find a complete kit. But I anticipated some work, before this system was working properly on the engine. And if the testruns shows that I wanna keep the 6 cylinder engine, I will build a manifold for an MPI system.

Just to make it run, and take a few trips this summer, it think the carb in the 95░ position will work fine.

I'm not taking the car to the race track, only cruise around town and driving to the ocean.
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Euro 924, 1976

"If you can't fix it, don't break it"

/P.G. Andersen
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Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 307
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today I installed the radiator and cranckshaft pulley, to see how much space we have here.



The minimun distance is 50mm (2 inch). It will be a little more, when the pulley is mounted correct, it is not seated properly now, can go approx 1/4 inch more towards the engine.

It will also help to mount the radiator correct, one of the mounting ears are bend, so the radiator is now a bit closer to the engine than it should be.

On the pulley, there are 4 studs pointing out, for mounting a fan, these will be cut off.



I think that it should be possible to mount two small fans on the radiator and keep the crankshaft pulley.

Then I can use the original 924 alternator and a V-belt. This will not be the final solution, but for testing, it's fine. I would like to relocate the alternator, to the other side of the engine(away from the exhaust manifold), and use PolyVee belt.


_________________
Euro 924, 1976

"If you can't fix it, don't break it"

/P.G. Andersen


Last edited by Horizonblue on Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1764
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mounted a Spal fan on my 931, very neat and bolt on, or is it not enough space for that either?

This engine could be nice, 10:1 compression, ported, Weber, hot cam+ nice lenght tuned manifold. Straight sixes can really sound so sweet in na tune
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 7903
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CÚdric wrote:
I mounted a Spal fan on my 931, very neat and bolt on, or is it not enough space for that either?

This engine could be nice, 10:1 compression, ported, Weber, hot cam+ nice lenght tuned manifold. Straight sixes can really sound so sweet in na tune



+1
go on, this might end up quite nice !
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