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Out with the 2.5, in with the 5.7.
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joecitizennn  



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 2096
Location: no mans land

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:03 am    Post subject: Out with the 2.5, in with the 5.7. Reply with quote

Mr v8carreragts, I noticed you started a thread about your build under general discussions but it didn't really go as far as I had hoped. I was going to reply to that thread, but the questions and interest I have apply more to the engine transplant section. I want to see more of this project especially;

Are you using lt1 or ls1?
What bellhousing and adapter setup are you using?
Are you building your own clutch disc?
What means of clutch actuation are you using?

Pictures would be pretty awesome!
_________________
87 924s
88 924SE gone
447 hp cgt clone
87 924S gone
84 944 sold
83 944 sold
89 turbo S LSD, ABS etc
86 951 white rocket
85 944 sport everything.
84 944 sold.
87 944 sold


Last edited by joecitizennn on Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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v8carreragts  



Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 665
Location: Tucson, AZ

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My car is an 84 944. I have put 924 1/4 panels on it with Carrera GT rear flares. I have closed the sunroof with a hammer formed steel panel. The hood had a Carrera GT hood scoop. I have cut out the front cross member and made a new one from 12 ga. steel with a hole for more air flow. I have modified the upper support to be removeable so I can remove the engine easily through the front. I have a fiberglass Carrera GTS front bumper with OEM bumper rubbers.

I am using a G31 transaxle with the European 4.125 ring and pinion and a ZF LSD.

My engine is based on a Gen I Chevy. It has a 4 bolt block, forged 3" stroke crank (302) powdered metal rods, forged pistons, ported LT1 heads modified to use on a Gen I, LT1 intake manifold modified for a distributor. I plan to re-make my headers with 3/4" tubing and 3.5" collectors. I am using a roller cam using GM 3.4L v6 lifters (block modified to use these with the factory roller spider) I modified the front of the block to use the factory roller cam retainer so I will not need a cam button. I have a 924 turbo in-tank fuel pump with a 930 pump mounted where the original was. I will be using a fuel injection system from Dynamic EFI.

I made my own adapter plate to fit the Chevy bell housing along with a pilot bearing adapter. I also made up my own engine mounts. I will use a 153 tooth steel flywheel with a 10.5" pressure plate and a Chrysler disc and hydraulic TO bearing.

I have late Turbo rear calipers fitted to the stock rear rotors and Jaguar 4 pot calipers on the front with stock rotors. I used a BMW hydro-boost and the 944 master cylinder. I have a Late 944 turbo radiator.

My A/C is modified early 924 evaporator so I can have de-humidified defrost and I have dual small condensers that will use electric fans that will mount where the GTS oil coolers were mounted. This will be controlled with a combination of the OEM heater controls and a BMW A/C switch mounted where the brake warning light was in the console.

I have 7 x 16 and 8 x 16 Fuchs wheels with the same back spacing as the Carrera GTS had. I plan on 225/50 VR16 on the front and 245/45 VR15 on the back.

I have a lot of pictures but I need to create an album on my Image Shack account. I have some here but I think you need to register to see them.


http://944hybrids.forumotion.com/gallery/Personal-album-of-v8carreragts-cat_u8.htm
_________________
84 944--924 Carrera GTS clone w/520HP Chevy 302 V8--RUNNING!
2015 AUDI Q7
2013 Dodge Charger R/T AWD HEMI
2013 Chevy Cruze
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v8carreragts  



Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 665
Location: Tucson, AZ

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some albums:

http://imageshack.us/g/607/firstgeardogteeth.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/g/20/fromfront.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/g/10/53400046.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/g/14/53400093.jpg/
_________________
84 944--924 Carrera GTS clone w/520HP Chevy 302 V8--RUNNING!
2015 AUDI Q7
2013 Dodge Charger R/T AWD HEMI
2013 Chevy Cruze
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joecitizennn  



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 2096
Location: no mans land

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sweet. Thanks for the reply. I am picking up a late model lt1 with alminum heads tomorrow. I have been impressed with your work and pictures and will likely be asking alot more questions.
_________________
87 924s
88 924SE gone
447 hp cgt clone
87 924S gone
84 944 sold
83 944 sold
89 turbo S LSD, ABS etc
86 951 white rocket
85 944 sport everything.
84 944 sold.
87 944 sold
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joecitizennn  



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 2096
Location: no mans land

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just picked up the engine. It is a 1997 and indeed has aluminum heads. It is complete top to bottom minus the alternator. Spposedly has 85k miles on it before car was wrecked. I will post some pics when I get it home.
_________________
87 924s
88 924SE gone
447 hp cgt clone
87 924S gone
84 944 sold
83 944 sold
89 turbo S LSD, ABS etc
86 951 white rocket
85 944 sport everything.
84 944 sold.
87 944 sold
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View user's profile Send private message
joecitizennn  



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 2096
Location: no mans land

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been reading till 1 or 2 in the morning for the last several nights, cross-refrencing part numbers and trying gain an idea of what I need to do. I established a game plan at last.

First

- Re-shape oil pan to dimensions found from others builds.
- Acquire Flywheel, pressure plate, disc, pilot bearing, SBC bellhousing or c5bellhousing whichever I find cheapest first.
- Test run engine. (compression shows great, pulled pan today looks good as well)

Second

- Remove hood, header panel, headlight lids and fenders (for ease of working)
- Drop suspension and subframe
- Pull engine
- Pull booster and anything else in the way of new motor.

Third

- Check distance from pilot bearing to rear face of bellhousing on pulled motor/bellhousing assy.
- Check the same on the chevy unit. The diffirence will verify the needed thickness of the adapter plate.
- machine adapter plate
-Fit and properly space slave/throwout assy.
- Bolt motor to torq tube in car
- Check clutch operation
- Check pilot and shaft alignment.

Final

- Install crossmember
- Fit motor mounts
- Fab headers
- Fab intake pipe
- Hook up electrical, fuel, test fire, etc etc... Hundreds of final details to address at this point, but at least I am in motion.
_________________
87 924s
88 924SE gone
447 hp cgt clone
87 924S gone
84 944 sold
83 944 sold
89 turbo S LSD, ABS etc
86 951 white rocket
85 944 sport everything.
84 944 sold.
87 944 sold
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v8carreragts  



Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 665
Location: Tucson, AZ

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, the standard Chevy bellhousing depth is about 6 3/8" deep. If you use an adapter plate thicker than 1/4" the splines will not go completely through the clutch disc hub. There was someone on the v8 board that stripped the splines on his.

I made my adapter plate from 1/2" thick aluminum plate. In order to have complete engagement of the disc hub I tapped the torque tube shaft towards the engine enough to get total engagement on my disc. Then I had to cut another grove into the rear of the shaft so the clamping bolt will fit. In the rear, there is more than enough spline engagement to do this. You still have more in the rear than the clutch disc hub thickness.

There are alternatives. Texas Performance Concepts has most of the parts that you need and Quick Time makes a bellhousing specifically for this swap P/N RM-6033 (thanks to someone on the v8 forum)

There is a specific Sanderson shorty header that fits. (info on the v8 forum) and Texas Performance Concepts is looking at making long tube headers. I am fabing my own.

But basically you have listed what is necessary, although very simplified.

If you go and join 944hybrids.com you will find just about everything you need either available to buy or the info to do it yourself.

There are at least 5 ways of doing the brakes. Two hydroboosts, (ATE/BMW & Bendix) two non power assisted and one using an electric booster.

There are 3 guys with 924's, one with an LS swap along with the complete drivetrain, one with a 327 Chevy and Porsche driveline (early 924 and I think he just broke the shaft) and one with a Grand National turbo v6. (turbobob---member here as well)

There was also a guy with a 944/LS swap that used the complete Corvette TT and rear transaxle.

Lots of pictures in the galleries as well.
_________________
84 944--924 Carrera GTS clone w/520HP Chevy 302 V8--RUNNING!
2015 AUDI Q7
2013 Dodge Charger R/T AWD HEMI
2013 Chevy Cruze
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joecitizennn  



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 2096
Location: no mans land

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny you should mention the shaft will not reach in the stock configuration as I became aware of this earlier tonite. I was looking through the gallery at texasperformanceconcepts and saw a SBC bellhousing that someone had made an adapter plate for. I noticed that he recessed where the torque tube mounts, and in doing so removed some of the rear bellhousing hole to allow for the recess. I had not expected the complication, but was ok with doing it that way. I do like your idea as it seems very simple and may very well go this route.

I also purchased a single rear main seal 153 tooth flywheel and matching push type pressure plate tonight, as well as locating a SBC flywheel here in town for 50 bucks. Looks like things are falling into place.

I plan to make my own headers. I just need to find a source for mandrel bent 90s in 1.75" tube. The welding will be the easy part. Hoping I can also find some cheap exhaust port mounting flanges so I dont have to fab them.

Here are a couple pictures of the engine.





The car its going in.






I dont like the look of the smog pump. It has to go but I dont really know the best procedure for removing it from the system. Not a priority right now. I noticed that the oil filter was hit hard from the front, hard enough to move the oil cooler canister and crack the mounting plate beneith it. Luckily GM puts part numbers on things like that. I am already starting to like chevy.

My next immediate project that I plan to do in the next couple days is oil pan modification. Any suggestions would be helpful.

By the way, I also live about 5 hours away from you. Maybe someday I may get to see your v8 GTS.
_________________
87 924s
88 924SE gone
447 hp cgt clone
87 924S gone
84 944 sold
83 944 sold
89 turbo S LSD, ABS etc
86 951 white rocket
85 944 sport everything.
84 944 sold.
87 944 sold
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v8carreragts  



Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 665
Location: Tucson, AZ

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are the dimensions I used...look at the sketch under "NEW." The 11 1/2" measurement should be more than enough. However, I re-maid mine using the rounded shape but you need to check the 3 5/8" dimension because I am building a 302---3" stroke crank as opposed to the 350 which is 3.48". Check for rod bolt clearance at the bottom.


_________________
84 944--924 Carrera GTS clone w/520HP Chevy 302 V8--RUNNING!
2015 AUDI Q7
2013 Dodge Charger R/T AWD HEMI
2013 Chevy Cruze
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joecitizennn  



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 2096
Location: no mans land

PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am thinking of replacing my bearings while the pan is off. They seem very cheap, at 20 dollars for a set of rod bearings at Oreillys. Would these be fine or should I look for a more expensive set?
_________________
87 924s
88 924SE gone
447 hp cgt clone
87 924S gone
84 944 sold
83 944 sold
89 turbo S LSD, ABS etc
86 951 white rocket
85 944 sport everything.
84 944 sold.
87 944 sold
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
v8carreragts  



Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 665
Location: Tucson, AZ

PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't change the bearings just because you can get them cheap. Do you know the history of the engine? If not, I would begin by looking at the main bearings. Specifically the lower half. This is the place where you will see scuffing from detonation. Also, look at the edge where the bearing halves separate. When they are stressed the edges pull in. Bearings are made slightly oval so when this happens they do not immediately scuff the journal. If there is evidence of wear here, I would tear the engine down and check all of the bearings and all of the journals for wear.

If everything is in spec. you can just replace the bearings. I don't use cheapies though. This is one thing that is worth spending money on-- especially if you plan to drive it hard. I am using Childs & Albert main bearing spacers and main bearings and King spacer rod bearings. (early small journal crank in a late large journal block with late rods)

It also would be a good idea in this case to replace the rod bolts and then check the big ends for roundness. ARP bolts are not too expensive. I also recommend a stretch gauge to tighten the rod bolts. Most rod bearing problems are from improperly tightened bolts. Summit Racing has a Lunati bolt stretch gauge for $50.
_________________
84 944--924 Carrera GTS clone w/520HP Chevy 302 V8--RUNNING!
2015 AUDI Q7
2013 Dodge Charger R/T AWD HEMI
2013 Chevy Cruze
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joecitizennn  



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 2096
Location: no mans land

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ill check the clearances on the crank tonight if I find the time.
_________________
87 924s
88 924SE gone
447 hp cgt clone
87 924S gone
84 944 sold
83 944 sold
89 turbo S LSD, ABS etc
86 951 white rocket
85 944 sport everything.
84 944 sold.
87 944 sold
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
joecitizennn  



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 2096
Location: no mans land

PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not had the time this evening to check all the caps, but I did check 3 rod caps which all showed .0032" and checked two main caps, #1 showed .002. And #2 showed .0022. The crank does not show any wear.


I am not familiar enough with chevy motors to know if this normal wear for 85k miles. I do want to reduce the above figures by around .0005 .

I also noticed my cylinder bores have visible hone marks. I wonder if the top end was redone at some point? My compression shows above 180 in all cylinders, but I could not measure beyond that because my guage hose would blow off the nipple over 180 psi!
_________________
87 924s
88 924SE gone
447 hp cgt clone
87 924S gone
84 944 sold
83 944 sold
89 turbo S LSD, ABS etc
86 951 white rocket
85 944 sport everything.
84 944 sold.
87 944 sold
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
joecitizennn  



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 2096
Location: no mans land

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got my pressure plate and flywheel in the mail. I also bought a set of standard size rod bearings. Oil clearance in rods now .002. Debating whether or not to touch the mains, they are within what alot of people consider to be ideal.
_________________
87 924s
88 924SE gone
447 hp cgt clone
87 924S gone
84 944 sold
83 944 sold
89 turbo S LSD, ABS etc
86 951 white rocket
85 944 sport everything.
84 944 sold.
87 944 sold
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
joecitizennn  



Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 2096
Location: no mans land

PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finished the oil pan today, I think I will have plenty of room for the crossmember and power steering.







\
_________________
87 924s
88 924SE gone
447 hp cgt clone
87 924S gone
84 944 sold
83 944 sold
89 turbo S LSD, ABS etc
86 951 white rocket
85 944 sport everything.
84 944 sold.
87 944 sold
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
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