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Which is the true 924 GTP
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dreamgts  



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@rom78, that awesome GTP has a prototype 16 valve engine I think, looking very similar to the 944 S2 engine 3lit.

Nice car.

dreamgts
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rom78  



Joined: 02 Jul 2010
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Location: France

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's crazy to think there are just 2 engines like the one we can hear in the video
astonishment 006 just made 2 or 3 laps to show it's still running well and it goes back to its box. ( don't wan't to brake it ??? )
People who don't know the car don't think about it.
They often think : " It's just a 944 turbo with a big body kit. But that's wrong it's a real race prototype.
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TJC  



Joined: 04 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very, very nice Rom...thanks for sharing!
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rom78  



Joined: 02 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're welcome.

One more for pleasure

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RyFXTTj6WM&feature=related
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jonnyclubsport  



Joined: 20 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great video and fantastic thread, thank you to all the contributors - TJC in particular for the huge amount of time you must have spent responding to questions.

Unfortunately I have a few more of my own

- Am I correct in saying that a major limitation on engine performance was the open-deck design of the 944 prototype block - ultimately shelving plans of >500hp and a potential shot at winning LeMans...?

- Regarding the gearbox, does anyone know its origin, was it a special, surely not for only a handfull? It appears to carry its gear cases behind the rear axle similar to the Audi style boxes...

- For the rear suspension - Does anyone have any detailed pictures of how the cast aluminium trailing arm carrier mounts to the body? Also are the trailing arms unique to the GTS, GTR and GTP cars or are they 934/5/6 parts? I also recall seeing pictures of what look to be fabricated steel versions.

- Are any pictures available of the aluminium torque tube? I'm particularly interested in the end connections and bearing supports.

Thanks in advance

Jonny
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

#3 Freisinger restoration photos





#19 Freisinger restoration photos








Hugo Boss GTR photos



D-Prod (933) rear trailing arms:



As you can see, all three of these cars have slight variations with respect to the trailing arms, torque tube, etc. It even appears that the Hugo Boss GTR has steel trailing arms similar to those used on the D-Production (933).
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jonnyclubsport  



Joined: 20 Oct 2011
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Location: Oxford, UK

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the friesinger GTR photos Ideola.

It appears that #3 has an aluminium torque tube and 019 had to make do with steel. Perhaps the stocks of alu TT's are now empty

On #3 the rear section of the TT appears to be a casting rather than a plain tube - perhaps this was done to improve stiffness around the area of the coupling access hole. I would love to see a photo of one removed in more detail, bearing supports etc...

GTR 003 rear underside

---------

Concerning the GTP gearbox/transaxle; I was reffering to the fact that the unit fitted to GTP 006 (on display in the Porsche museum), looks significantly different to a GTR unit (derived from a 931 casing?) - As I think TJC may have already mentioned.


GTP 006 rear underside

The fuel tanks casing also appers to be a different shape to accomodate the gear carriers mounted behind the axle line.[img][/img][img][/img]
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TJC  



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonnyclubsport wrote:
Great video and fantastic thread, thank you to all the contributors - TJC in particular for the huge amount of time you must have spent responding to questions.

Unfortunately I have a few more of my own

- Am I correct in saying that a major limitation on engine performance was the open-deck design of the 944 prototype block - ultimately shelving plans of >500hp and a potential shot at winning LeMans...?

- Regarding the gearbox, does anyone know its origin, was it a special, surely not for only a handfull? It appears to carry its gear cases behind the rear axle similar to the Audi style boxes...

- For the rear suspension - Does anyone have any detailed pictures of how the cast aluminium trailing arm carrier mounts to the body? Also are the trailing arms unique to the GTS, GTR and GTP cars or are they 934/5/6 parts? I also recall seeing pictures of what look to be fabricated steel versions.

- Are any pictures available of the aluminium torque tube? I'm particularly interested in the end connections and bearing supports.

Thanks in advance

Jonny


As to your first question I believe Porsche was conservative in limiting the horsepower in 006 at LeMans in the interest of reliability and testing the 944 components. The car was later raced with upwards of 500HP. Also the focus of winning LeMans in 1981 was on the 936's which was obtained with the Ickx/Bell car.

The gearbox, as with the engine, were indeed special and unique to 005 and 006 and even had their own "Type" number which was 949. The gearbox was massive and had larger gears and an internal oil pump. It also utilized an external oil cooler.







Sorry, no TT pics.
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gegge  



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting to see that the 006 didn´t use CV joints Guessing thats the reason for those huge rubber dampers.
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jonnyclubsport  



Joined: 20 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As to your first question I believe Porsche was conservative in limiting the horsepower in 006 at LeMans in the interest of reliability and testing the 944 components. The car was later raced with upwards of 500HP. Also the focus of winning LeMans in 1981 was on the 936's which was obtained with the Ickx/Bell car.


Indeed, I think I recall reading that the 'open deck' architecture of the 2.5l 944 block placed a heavy load on the gasket interface, and this was the main barrier to running 500+hp over long periods...

Something that the factory resolved several years later with the 'siamesed' design of the 2.7/3.0l blocks for the 2.7/S2/968.

Quote:
The gearbox, as with the engine, were indeed special and unique to 005 and 006 and even had their own "Type" number which was 949. The gearbox was massive and had larger gears and an internal oil pump. It also utilized an external oil cooler.

Quote:
Interesting to see that the 006 didn´t use CV joints Guessing thats the reason for those huge rubber dampers.


Did the car run with a locked differential for Lemans?
Are the rubber dampers/guibo's essential for doing this and saving the gearbox from imploding...?
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Last edited by jonnyclubsport on Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:02 pm; edited 3 times in total
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TJC  



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did the car run with a locked differential for Lemans?
Are the rubber dampers/guibo's essential for doing this and saving the gearbox from imploding...?[/quote]

I would suspect that 006 had some type of LSD when it was campaigned at LeMans, although I can not verify that for certain or what percentage of lockup was employed. As for 005 I recall that it did have a LSD.

As for the half-shaft arrangement shown in the picture of 006 in the Porsche Museum, notice that there are u-joints employed at each end of the halfshaft and a guibo also used near the gearbox. This design was employed on the 917 and 935 factory race cars and carried over to 005 (originally) and 006. The halfshafts were made from titantium to save weight. To further compensate for weight savings Porsche employed the use of Guibos to compensate for fore and aft movement in the halfshaft while moving through it's arc when encountering bumps and dips in the road instead of using a heavier splined shaft system which is utilized worldwide in production vehicles even today. At some point 005 was converted to CV joints, probably when it was campaigned by Alan Hamilton.
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jonnyclubsport  



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So they are designed to be compliant axially but stiff in torsion.

I wonder if the rubber joint also allows a little more compliance (compared with steel spline UJ's) in an impact loading, for example when a driven wheel lands off a kerb.
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rom78  



Joined: 02 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no real news but nice to read


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rom78  



Joined: 02 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys big news 924-005 is for sale (and 924-003 too)











http://www.goodingco.com/car/1981-porsche-924-gtp

The Drendel Family Collection

1981 Porsche 944 GTP

CHASSIS NO. 924-005

$375,000 - $450,000

Without Reserve
■Porsche Factory Prototype and Development Car
■One of Only Two Examples Built
■Exceedingly Rare Type 949 Competition Engine
■Meticulously Restored Using Original Components
■Subject of Feature Article in Excellence Magazine
■Displayed at the 1998 Monterey Historics
■Eligible for Leading Vintage Races and Porsche Events


Quote:
This Car
Following the success of the three works 924 GTPs at the 1980 24 Hours of Le Mans, Porsche saw an ideal opportunity to introduce the suc- cessor to the 924 road car, the 944. With the launch of the 944 scheduled for the Fall of 1981, a plan was put into place whereby a heavily revised GTP would be entered at Le Mans equipped with a turbocharged racing variant of the new car’s engine.

Hans Mezger developed the competition engine (Type 949) using a 944 block and a specially designed twin-cam cylinder head with four valves per cylinder. In a subtle reference to the upcoming Porsche road car, the one-piece camshaft cover was cast with the script “944 Le Mans.” Utilizing dry sump lubrication, belt- driven camshafts, balancer shafts, an air-to-air intercooler and a KKK K28 turbocharger, the engine produced a reliable 410 bhp with just 15 1/2 psi of boost. In addition to the new engine, the 1981 944 GTP benefitted from larger brake discs, wider rear tires, subtly revised bodywork and a special heavy-duty transaxle.

Constructed during the Winter of 1980 under the auspices of Eberhard Braun, 924-005 was to serve as the development car for the 1981 Le Mans project, as well as a rolling test bed for the forthcoming 944. In March 1981, 924-005 went to the Paul Ricard Circuit in France for testing.

Following the test runs, sister car 924-006 was prepared for Le Mans and entered in the GTP category. Driven by Walter Röhrl and Jürgen Barth, the Hugo Boss-sponsored 944 GTP finished 3rd in Class as well as 7th overall. Beyond its sensational results, the new Porsche was extremely reliable, spending less time in the pits than any other car in the race.

After Le Mans, 924-005 was disassembled at Weissach and placed in storage. Porsche eventually sold the components of the car to Australian Porsche importer Alan Hamilton. Impressed by the performance of the 944 GTP at Le Mans, Hamilton modified his 924 GTR (known as Spirit of Australia) to accept the Type 949 engine and campaigned the car in a local racing series.

In the early 1990s, Hamilton sold a number of his race cars, including Spirit of Australia, to Porsche AG. Eventually, Porsche sold Hamilton’s 924 GTR to noted Porsche collector David Morse. Around that time, marque expert Kerry Morse discovered the bare tub of 924-005 sitting behind a shop in Southern California and, recognizing its significance, immediately acquired it.

In the mid-1990s, Porsche collector Jim Edwards was presented with the opportunity to purchase both 924-005 and Spirit of Australia. Keen to reunite Porsche’s original test mule with its original Type 949 engine, Edwards restored 924-005 using the correct, original components sourced from Hamilton’s GTR.

According to an interview with Mr. Edwards that appeared in the May 2002 issue of Excellence magazine, “...all the pieces we took from the Spirit of Australia fell right into place on the 005 chassis. There was no question that it was the original kit that had been on that car.”

During the restoration process, extensive photos were taken of 924-006 at the Porsche factory to ensure authenticity in every detail. The completed car was even finished in bold Hugo Boss livery to resemble 924-006. Fortunately, 924-005 was completed in time for the 1998 Monterey Historics and was a notable addition to the Porsche anniversary celebration.

In February 2007, Mr. Edwards sold 924-005 to Matthew Drendel. Once in the Drendel Family Collection, 924-005 was entrusted to Jerry Woods Enterprises in Campbell, California, for extensive cosmetic attention and necessary mechanical upkeep. Today, this important Porsche race car presents beautifully and, with appropri- ate preparation, would make an oustanding candidate for historic racing or major Porsche gatherings such as the Rennsport Reunion.

A fascinating piece of Porsche competition history, 924-005 is both the ultimate development of the original 924 GTP and the prototype of the 944 series. Considering that the only other 944 GTP, 924-006, is kept in the Porsche museum, the appearance of this car at auction represents a unique opportunity that is not to be missed.



Good job TJC
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rom78  



Joined: 02 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the results are ...


• Porsche 917/30 Can-Am Spyder 1973: 4.400.000 USD (record mondiale su Porsche e 917)
• Porsche 550/1500 RS Spyder 1955: 3.685.000 USD (record mondiale)
• Porsche 911 Carrera RSR Turbo 2.14: 3.245.000 USD (record mondiale per una 911)
• Porsche 935/76 1976: 2.530.000 USD (record mondiale per una 935)
• Porsche 962 1984: 1.925.000 USD (record mondiale per una 962)
• Porsche 911 GT1 Evolution 1997: 1.265.000 USD (record mondiale per una GT1)
• Porsche 906 1967: 1.001.000 USD (record mondiale per una 906)
• Porsche 934 1976: 891.000 USD (record mondiale per una 934)
• Porsche 924 GTP 1980: 385.000 USD
• Porsche 968 Turbo RS 1992: 346.500 USD (record mondiale per una 968)
• Porsche 944 GTP 1981: 308.000 USD
• Ferrari 212 Inter Coupe 1951: 1.375.000 USD
• Tucker 48 1948: 1.320.000 USD
• Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Daytona Spider 1971: 1.001.000 USD

peanuts ...
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