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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Central-ish Arizona, USA
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 Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| Grenadiers wrote: | | Hey TJC, I have a set of those rear fenders at our NM house. I do not plan on using them, I think they originated in Michigan, found their way to Arizona, and now they're in new mexico! We're moving back for the winter sometime in mid-october, if you're interested in them. cheap. |
Soooo Tempting, we may have to talk...could always store them until the house and landscaping are done...I'll need another major project, right?
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dreamgts
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 504
Location: malta
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:24 am Post subject: |
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Sounds interesting... i will just sit back and wait for the pics then. In the meantime I will have to get my mech working on the 933T project, maybe waving a few Euros in front of him will get him into top gear 
dreamgts
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rom78
Joined: 02 Jul 2010
Posts: 96
Location: France
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:03 am Post subject: |
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The problem with the rear fender of gt racing is that there is a flap on the rear. You don't have this on a le mans' gtp or gtr.
Concerning the position of coolers, here is a good illustration
i confirm TJC, the base for a replica project should be a 924 not a 944. A guy is trying to adapt a gt racing body kit on a 944 and the result for the rear fender will not be really good or maybe he will have some hours to make adaptations. Just because the rear fender of a 944 is bigger.
TJC you said the base should be a 924 but is there a difference between models of 1980 and 89 ?
And between a 924 S and a 924 T wich one would be the best for the construction of a GTP replica ?
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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Central-ish Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:39 am Post subject: |
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rom78 and all...something was bothering me a bit when I reviewed the restoration pictures of the car at Friesinger's. The first thing I noticed are the 931 vents in the front, which the race cars did not have as they had a one piece fiberglass front end. I don't know if they are representing this car as the Holbert/Bell entry at LeMans in 1980, but to the best of my knowledge that would have been chassis #924-003 which I believe is still owned by Matt Drendel in North Carolina...see www.heritagemotorwerks.net for details. I did find that Freisinger also has some resto pics of 019, a GTR that was never completed by the factory, perhaps this is the same car as the one in rom78's link. My memory is not perfect on 019, but I do believe that Mr. Edwards had that shell at one time as I remember seeing a GTR shell in his warehouse.
dreamgts, I did look at the GTR link and the front flares are similar to the original GTR, but seem to flare out at the bottom too much. Also the rear flares seem to angle in at the bottom too much. The factory also had a habit of making the fender edges very wide and thick on their race cars and I don't see that feature too clearly on these. One of the sources of period photos that I have is a book titled "PORSCHE The Road, Sports and Racing Cars" published Dalton Watson Fine Books, 1993. It has some very nice photos of the GTR cars and a couple of 006 in the garage at LeMans. You may try to find it for reference in the future.
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'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Central-ish Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:05 am Post subject: |
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rom78, one of the other items that I should have mentioned earlier in stating the differences in the GTR and GTP cars was the bodywork. The GTP cars had wider bodywork than the GTR cars as they had a wider track. The example you show is of a GTR circa 1980. While you make a good point regarding the lip or flap on the rear fender, the GTP did have a slight upturn in this area, but perhaps not as pronounced as the one GT Racing shows.
Regarding a base platform, if I were to build a GTR replica using a 2.0L engine, then I would use an early 2.0L based shell, however if I wanted to use a 944 based 2.5L or larger engine, and build a GTP replica then I would start with a 924S shell. My theory on this is that it would eliminate a lot of fabrication problems in fitting the engine in a shell that didn't originally have that size engine, as an example 2.5L or larger in an early car or 2.0L in a late car.
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'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
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rom78
Joined: 02 Jul 2010
Posts: 96
Location: France
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:18 am Post subject: |
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In fact if i well understand, if you buy the Le mans' front of gt racing, you'll have to modifiy the form of the air entry and to enlarge fenders because 73'' is not enough for the gtp.
Is it the same for the rear fender ? Cut the flap a little and enlarge it ?
After the problem of the body kit, there is an other big part : " WHEELS"
It's not hard to find a BBS E55 or E50 for a BMW but it's not the same for an E56. Those wheels are not avalaible any more.
It think the guy who has this garage has not the same problem as you to find how to construct a gtp replica
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15548
Location: Spring Lake MI
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:02 am Post subject: |
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As recently as 2007, the BOSS cars were at a certain California Porsche specialist:
21 pix starting here ^
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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Central-ish Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| rom78 wrote: | In fact if i well understand, if you buy the Le mans' front of gt racing, you'll have to modifiy the form of the air entry and to enlarge fenders because 73'' is not enough for the gtp.
Is it the same for the rear fender ? Cut the flap a little and enlarge it ?
After the problem of the body kit, there is an other big part : " WHEELS"
It's not hard to find a BBS E55 or E50 for a BMW but it's not the same for an E56. Those wheels are not avalaible any more.
It think the guy who has this garage has not the same problem as you to find how to construct a gtp replica
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Yes, modifications will need to be made. If I can find my notes from 12 years ago I may have taken some measurements of some of these pieces, I'm fairly certain that I did with the wheels and the front fender width. The wheels may not be overly difficult to source as they were used on other Porsche race cars as well...just might be difficult getting someone to part with spares and then paying for them  .
Oh, and that guy who has that garage, well that looks to me to be part of Matt Drendel's collection. And that 924 between the Lowenbrau car and the Sunoco 917 looks like it may be 005! I had heard that he may have or had the car at one time. I'll need to do more research  .
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'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
www.ttrs1.com |
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Mike9311
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1678
Location: Chicago-ish
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:16 am Post subject: |
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Wow, thanks! Awesome pics
That brings up another interesting tid bit with the intake.
This morning while working out in the basement I noticed an open magazine. It showed a Ferrari engine I believe from the 430. The throttle body on this Boss car and the Ferrari do not go straight in along the angle of the plenum. Instead, its at an angle.
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1980 924 NA (R&D lightweight)
1982 931 wana-be GTR race car |
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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Central-ish Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:54 am Post subject: |
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Well it looks like in 2008 the 005 was indeed part of the Drendel collection:
http://www.sportscardigest.com/porsche-parade-%E2%80%93-heritage-and-history-display/?nggpage=2
This is the info that I thought I saw a couple of years ago...boy my head sure hurts from trying to remember where I saw this  !
I wonder if he still has it? Anybody near Hickory, NC interested in taking a look ?
_________________
'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
www.ttrs1.com |
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rom78
Joined: 02 Jul 2010
Posts: 96
Location: France
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:06 am Post subject: |
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My last lucky find
The GTP in race. Thank you M.MORINIERE
Its second life maybe in the workshop of the porsche museum. So beautiful
TJC, do you remember how was the reinforcement of the frame ? It's really strange, it's not completely symmetrical.
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15548
Location: Spring Lake MI
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:38 am Post subject: |
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dreamgts
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 504
Location: malta
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| ideola wrote: |
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This is interesting. My mech wants to manufacture (when he gets to it) a throttle body plenum similiar in design to this one ideola posted for my 933T, but instead of using shorter(looks like a slanting design actualy) manifold intake piping , he sugested or else mentioned a cone type /design plenum. I guess this would be right then. What concerns me realy is the fitment of the injectors and fuel rail. Is this car fitted with the kugelfischer system??????
The GTP/GTR kit seems to be bit difficult to get too. My curiosity about the car has taken me into looking up some availaable kits and none seem right or correct. I have also come across a Canon Porsche GTR(?) which has flared rounded arches on both front and rear, thing is its not clear if the arches themselves are what I car wide body arches, with these rounded arches attached/moulded into them, but to me it seems that the arches are attached to a narrow bodied 924 (????). Does anyone have any info about these type arches or the Canon car itself. It looks tough. Is this a 3rd model of the GTR since it seems that GTR's had wide bodies fitted (944 Look) or am I getting confused here
dreamgts
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2 PORSCHE 924 (CURRENT PROJECTS)
2 CLASSIC CORTINAS (FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT(FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT 132 2000CC(JUST PURCHASED)
4 SUV'S
2 SEDANS
1 OPEL PANEL VAN
WIFES SUZUKI ALTO
Last edited by dreamgts on Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dreamgts
Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 504
Location: malta
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| Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:27 am Post subject: |
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TJC in your last link there seems to be 2 924's in the pictures. The literature states them as a 1980 924 Carrera turbo GTP , and a 1981 924/944 GTP which I take it that is the Boss car. The other car in the background no 3 car seems narrower and looks as if it has a different body kit too. If this car is the 1980 924 Carrera turbo GTP, then this must be the true GTP car since it came earlier (1980).
Does anyone have any pics of this second car, and if this is the original true GTP, where does the round arched body kit model fit in then? I guess this is gonna take some explanation to figure out.
dreamgts
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2 PORSCHE 924 (CURRENT PROJECTS)
2 CLASSIC CORTINAS (FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT(FINISHED)
1 CLASSIC FIAT 132 2000CC(JUST PURCHASED)
4 SUV'S
2 SEDANS
1 OPEL PANEL VAN
WIFES SUZUKI ALTO |
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15548
Location: Spring Lake MI
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