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GRM Trashes the 931
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ic932  



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just read and learn...
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Paul  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 9285
Location: Southeast Wisconsin

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All this talk about doing a complete FOES every 3 years or 36,000 miles, always makes me wonder if anyone has ever really done this.

And doing it once when you first bought the car does not count unless you did a complete FOES 3 years or 36,000 later.

ANYONE?
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
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924guy  



Joined: 29 Dec 2003
Posts: 2091
Location: Port St. Lucie, FL

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this 951 vs 931 is a silly argument, but i throw in my .02 anyhow.

an 86 951 is 217 hp according to kevins page http://www.connact.com/~kgross/FAQ/944faq02.html and weighs about 20 pounds less than a 931 (same page), i see no reason why with a little work a 931 cant run with a 951. in fact i have seen it happen, but i cant account for the condition of the 951 so i dont really count it.

951's are awesome cars, but penny for penny, the 931 is a much less expensive option and has more low $$ upgrade potential in my humble opinion.
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78 924
82 931 SE "smokey"
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Last edited by 924guy on Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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ic932  



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul wrote:
All this talk about doing a complete FOES every 3 years or 36,000 miles, always makes me wonder if anyone has ever really done this.

And doing it once when you first bought the car does not count unless you did a complete FOES 3 years or 36,000 later.

ANYONE?


Paul, of course no one has done it. But I bet there are a few thousand who have paid for it to be done...least they think they have!


Last edited by ic932 on Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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Nein37  



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 513
Location: New London, CT

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ic932 wrote:
Just read and learn...


Dude... FO.
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1981 931 CGT replica, OEM CGT intercooler, .8 BAR WG spring, GTS Headlights, Innovative Wide band A/F, A/C delete, 16" Fuchs, Weltmeister 200lb lowering springs, Bilstein HDs front, Koni Sport rears.
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ic932  



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, chill out ok. Nothing bad has happened. Just read the complete post and let your enthusiasm take a back seat. Now I like your CGT rep, but I doubt it could live with any of my old 932's. I'm only just touching those babies with my 3litre16V motors....I have welded in 924 engine mounts into my 944 chassis so don't ever believe that I don't know the 931's possibilities.
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ic932  



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

924guy wrote:
this is a silly argument, but i throw in my .02 anyhow.

an 86 951 is 217 hp according to kevins page http://www.connact.com/~kgross/FAQ/944faq02.html and weighs about 20 pounds less than a 931 (same page), i see no reason why with a little work a 931 cant run with a 951. in fact i have seen it happen, but i cant account for the condition of the 951 so i dont really count it.

951's are awesome cars, but penny for penny, the 931 is a much less expensive option and has more low $$ upgrade potential.


I think you have a great point. But you too are falling into the same trap! the comparison is between STOCK applications!
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Paul  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 9285
Location: Southeast Wisconsin

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ic932 wrote:
Paul wrote:
All this talk about doing a complete FOES every 3 years or 36,000 miles, always makes me wonder if anyone has ever really done this.

And doing it once when you first bought the car does not count unless you did a complete FOES 3 years or 36,000 later.

ANYONE?


Paul, of course no one has done it. But I bet there are a few thousand who have paid for it to be done...least they think they have!


OK it counts if you have paid someone to do it.

ANYONE?
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
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Nein37  



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 513
Location: New London, CT

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You called me a prick... I generally have a problem with people who do that. Your condescending tone doesn't help the matter.
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1981 931 CGT replica, OEM CGT intercooler, .8 BAR WG spring, GTS Headlights, Innovative Wide band A/F, A/C delete, 16" Fuchs, Weltmeister 200lb lowering springs, Bilstein HDs front, Koni Sport rears.
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Nein37  



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 513
Location: New London, CT

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ic932 wrote:
924guy wrote:
this is a silly argument, but i throw in my .02 anyhow.

an 86 951 is 217 hp according to kevins page http://www.connact.com/~kgross/FAQ/944faq02.html and weighs about 20 pounds less than a 931 (same page), i see no reason why with a little work a 931 cant run with a 951. in fact i have seen it happen, but i cant account for the condition of the 951 so i dont really count it.

951's are awesome cars, but penny for penny, the 931 is a much less expensive option and has more low $$ upgrade potential.


I think you have a great point. But you too are falling into the same trap! the comparison is between STOCK applications!


Assuming they were either both US or both Euro and if for some strange reason I could not mod either car (931 or 944) then yes I would choose the 944. The Porsche designed lump is the better engine and not having a turbo would in the long run be easier to maintain and probably longer lived. In this context its really a no brainer and a clear reason why the 944 was such a great seller.
_________________
1981 931 CGT replica, OEM CGT intercooler, .8 BAR WG spring, GTS Headlights, Innovative Wide band A/F, A/C delete, 16" Fuchs, Weltmeister 200lb lowering springs, Bilstein HDs front, Koni Sport rears.
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ic932  



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nein37 wrote:
You called me a prick... I generally have a problem with people who do that. Your condescending tone doesn't help the matter.


Ok, culture clash...pub talk for us... I apologise. It's really like saying silly billy to our kids.

Which in turn is condscending so my excuse is feeble.

I do not want to isolate myself further then I have to with any other board member... So once again, I apologise.
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Nein37  



Joined: 29 Dec 2009
Posts: 513
Location: New London, CT

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Accepted and I apologize as well for being such a prick in one of my responses, I could have easily made my point with out calling you an "island monkey"
_________________
1981 931 CGT replica, OEM CGT intercooler, .8 BAR WG spring, GTS Headlights, Innovative Wide band A/F, A/C delete, 16" Fuchs, Weltmeister 200lb lowering springs, Bilstein HDs front, Koni Sport rears.
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ic932  



Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: UK

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Island monkey huh? I like that, it has its advantages. Thick skin being one of them lol

I'm a 931 guy to the bone...I also love the other models that were developed from it. I won't sit back and let them be badmouthed though
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15462
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point of this whole discussion is that GRM made the comparison of the 931 to the 944. Bringing up a 924NA or a 951, while interesting, is orthogonal to the discussion at hand.

And who said the comparison had to be stock-to-stock comparison? Plain and simple, a 931 offers more bang for the buck in terms of initial cost, cost to maintain, and cost to modify than the 944, beats it hands down in all three comparisons.

As for reliability, I can only comment on my experience. My 924S broke down and stranded me or my son more times in the 9 months I owned it than my three running 931s, my 928 and my 924 NA combined. The only time I have EVER been stranded by a 931 was in the first month of ownership before I had opportunity to do my own preventive maintenance.

The 924S also cost me more money than any one of my other cars to get running into reliable, saleable condition, and YES, that includes the 928 with full FOES service. Now bear in mind, this car had full documented history and was a 2-owner car before I got it, maintained by an absolutely anal Porsche guy, local PCA member. But the car was at about the 100K mark in mileage, and a whole bunch of things started going wrong all at once. Took me 9 months to sort out. None of my other 924s took nearly that long or caused nearly the frustration.

I realize this is only one example, but as I said, all of my 931s have been way more reliable.

As for maintenance intervals, I unloaded the 924S as fast as I could, so I didn't own it long enough to accumulate the miles required to redo FOES. As for the 928, because it's not an interference motor, I have not done FOES every 36 months. I did it within the first year of owning it, and have put less than 5K miles per year on it since. Given the risk vs. the cost on that car, I'm perfectly happy to drive it until the belt breaks since it won't damage the motor. If I had a 2.5L 924S/944 or a 32V 928, I wouldn't be so cavalier about it.
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Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11332
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ic932 wrote:
Stop being a prick and read & listen!


HEY doodoohead! Stop calling people names!



Ahem. . .

Just two cents, though, regarding your 924/31 944/51 comparison. The turbo upgrade netted about a 50% increase in HP for the toofah (115 vs 170). For your 951, the increase was 40% (160 vs 225).

So, what is it exactly that you are describing as embarassing?
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Last edited by Rasta Monsta on Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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