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bass gt · Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:25 pm Post subject: 16V head Q

Hi Guy's

Long time no speak. Just thought i'd drop a question here. I know this revives the old 16V head saga, but was interested when i saw this head, as i don't know which VW model it's from. If the model can be found, so can the cylinder spacing etc. Whilst the oil/water galleries may not align, might this work if converted to a closed deck design?
The only info i can glean is it's a 2.0 litre KR head? Any one know this???

Steve

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morghen · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 8880 Location: Romania

basicaly all MK2 VW engines starting with the 1.6 until 2.0 8v or 16v share the same block...this i got from a couple of VW guys...
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bass gt · Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:15 pm Post subject:

gegge · Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 1124 Location: Sweden

Looks like the KR, PL or ABF head. But I belive the spacing is to narrow, same as Audi I-5 I think.

The 1.8l KR has a bore of 81,0mm
The 2.0l ABF has a bore of 82,5mm

Check the GM Family II engine; 2.0l 16V Vauxhall/Opel Saab, 86mm bore. The Coscast heads are one of the best there are! Check C20XE and C20LET or search Dr. Fritz Indra who designed the head.

I think that Nissan and Mitsu also used 86mm with 16v heads. The Ford BDA is 86mm but RARE.

The best 16V head you can find is actually from Mercedes 190 2.3-16V made by Cosworth, but is oversquared by 95.50 x 80.25. BMW M3 S14 is good but oversquared as well.

I am not sure how to find the cylinder spacing except from trying/buying headgaskets.
_________________
Carl Fredrik Torkildsen

924 turbo -81 Carrera GT RESTOMOD
924 turbo -80 Dolomite De Luxe
924 -85 DP kit, BBS RS, M030 and tuned engine
924s -86 Black on black turbo with Fuchs

bass gt · Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:33 pm Post subject:

Carl,

Thanks for that. Re the Ford BDA head, it is actually reversed in terms of inlet & exhaust sides.
The Vauxhall head might be interesting, as might the Toyota heads, which were actually modeled on the Ford BD series heads.

Steve
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Front Wheel Drive is the Devil's work.

gegge · Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 1124 Location: Sweden

The C20xe/let has cylinder spacing of 93mm.
_________________
Carl Fredrik Torkildsen

924 turbo -81 Carrera GT RESTOMOD
924 turbo -80 Dolomite De Luxe
924 -85 DP kit, BBS RS, M030 and tuned engine
924s -86 Black on black turbo with Fuchs

bass gt · Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:45 pm Post subject:

gegge · Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 1124 Location: Sweden

The BMW 16v heads from M42 and M44 has got 84 to 86mm bore. Don´t know if M43 and M47 are of interest...

The spacing is 91mm and the I-6 engines M50 & S50 shared vital parts.
_________________
Carl Fredrik Torkildsen

924 turbo -81 Carrera GT RESTOMOD
924 turbo -80 Dolomite De Luxe
924 -85 DP kit, BBS RS, M030 and tuned engine
924s -86 Black on black turbo with Fuchs

morghen · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 8880 Location: Romania

the VW blocks are visibly shorter than ours

i'll do some measurements as i have access to some vw blocks and i think also on some 924 blocks. hope to get the data this week...but this info should be available on the internet.
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Rocco R16V · Joined: 03 May 2009 Posts: 497 Location: PNW

My screen name actually refers to that engine. I’m lazy and just have the same name on all the forums.

The VW 16V bore spacing is way too small to work on the Porsche motor. Sorry I dont know what it is, but the actual dimension is irrelevant.
Gegge is right KR, PL, ABF and 9A, are all 16V’s we only got the 1.8 PL and 2.0 9A here in America.

They are the same as Audi 5cyl with one less cyl. Same rods, pistons, valves ect. There is huge aftermarket support for them. These motors are very good and inexpensive to build, there are guys running well over 400hp with a turbo.

If you’re set on having a 16V you might consider swapping this motor in. it's shorter too so it could sit straight up.

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gegge · Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 1124 Location: Sweden

The spacing of the 924 head is 95mm

...built like a tank!
_________________
Carl Fredrik Torkildsen

924 turbo -81 Carrera GT RESTOMOD
924 turbo -80 Dolomite De Luxe
924 -85 DP kit, BBS RS, M030 and tuned engine
924s -86 Black on black turbo with Fuchs

gegge · Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 1124 Location: Sweden

The Honda S2000 has a bore of 87mm. I guess that both F20C and F22C share the spacing. H22 & H23 are 87mm. Seems like all Honda are 87mm...

F22&H22&K20 have got 94mm spacing.

We are getting closer!

The Honda K20 is a killer

_________________
Carl Fredrik Torkildsen

924 turbo -81 Carrera GT RESTOMOD
924 turbo -80 Dolomite De Luxe
924 -85 DP kit, BBS RS, M030 and tuned engine
924s -86 Black on black turbo with Fuchs

Insane · Joined: 20 Jun 2009 Posts: 65 Location: Kyiv

very strange topic... and very interesting as well.

- can anyone tell me what is the "closed deck design" and it's possible (dis)advantages?

morghen · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 8880 Location: Romania

this is an open deck...better cooling...limited HP gains...lighter..etc..

http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/b20vtec/pics3/dsc00012.jpg

and this is a closed deck...normal cooling...not so limited HP gains...heavyer..etc..

http://www.924.org/techsection/techpics/nakedblock924.jpg
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gegge · Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 1124 Location: Sweden

The 2.0 liter Nissan SR (GTi-R

) has a spacing of 97mm

_________________
Carl Fredrik Torkildsen

924 turbo -81 Carrera GT RESTOMOD
924 turbo -80 Dolomite De Luxe
924 -85 DP kit, BBS RS, M030 and tuned engine
924s -86 Black on black turbo with Fuchs