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924/944 audi 5 cylinder 20v swap????

 
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beario  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 139
Location: st albans/cornwall

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 1:55 am    Post subject: 924/944 audi 5 cylinder 20v swap???? Reply with quote

i see a russian guy has done this conversion,but does anyone know hwether the bellhousing bolts to the 924 or 944 torque tube or what clucth to use etc etc...or any more info please...many thanks...
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theres no replacment for displacement....V8
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Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11556
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he used audi clutch and 924 bellhousing. He cut the torsion tube, rotated it slightly, and welded it back together to put more tilt on the motor.
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  • WeiBe (1987 924S) - 931 S3
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beario  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 139
Location: st albans/cornwall

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this would be a great swap...if there was more info on it...seems like the russian has vanished...
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beario  



Joined: 03 Nov 2002
Posts: 139
Location: st albans/cornwall

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bump any more info on this...is there any hard facts of whether the audi s2 20v turbo bolts up to the 924s b/housing,and does the splined shaft need triming down or is the lenght ok...any info please as have mailed the guy who fitted the 20v n/a many times and heard nothing back...cheers...
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fiat22turbo  



Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 4040
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, here's a thought. Why don't you go do it yourself? I'm not trying to be an ass, but this gets asked enough and there have been various posts about varying forms of success.

So I'd say, get a spare TT/bellhousing, and a 5-cylinder motor, etc at a breakers and take some measurements, do some physical comparisons. If you have a friend who works at one (friends can be easy to make with a 6-pack of cold beer) you could spend a couple of hours just wandering the yard.

Now, the fact is well established that the bellhousing bolt patterns are the same between the 924 and most Audi's and in fact the Audi transaxle is the same one used in most 924, 944's all the way up to the 968, this includes the bellhousing. Renegradehyrids.org has some interesting links about the Audi transaxle as well as some of the mid-engine kit cars using Audi transaxles now. If you look, Porsche just cast a "reverse" bellhousing for the transaxle end of the torque tube and created a splined to connector to extend the main shaft of the transaxle. The Audi 100 that used the same motor as the 924 later used the 5-cylinder motor used in other Audi's is also a clue that they are somewhat compatible since the 100 came with a 5-cylinder.
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1979 924 Carrera GTS (clone-ish)
1988 944 Turbo S (Silver Rose)
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bullmoose  



Joined: 07 Sep 2007
Posts: 6
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To whomever it may concern...

www.944-20v.nl

As can be seen on my website pictures, I have a n.a. 5-cylinder 20v (engine code 7A) in my type1 944.

The biggest problem is the bit between engine and transaxle of course:

Bellhousing used must be 924 or 931 (= 924turbo), it's hole pattern fits the Audi inline-5 (well enough anyway). Difference between 924 and 931 is that the 931 has a hydraulic clutch and 924 cable operated. I used the 931 bellhousing because my 944 used a hydraulic clutch also originally.

I used the original Audi flywheel, pressure plate, and clutch release bearing. This is quite different from the Porsche setup as there the bearing is pulled rather then pushed

for clutch release. Hence I made myself a clutch fork that creates a push motion on the release bearing when activating the clutch cylinder on the bellhousing.

Clutch plate is one off an Audi 2.8 V6. Has the same outside diameter as the stock 7A plate but fits the 944 transaxle.

The 7A flywheel has a pilot bearing in it (so its not in the crank) and it has the correct diameter for the transaxle. However, it does not line up properly with the transaxle. Also, the Audi clutch assembly does not fit inside the 931 bellhousing because there is not enough clearance/depth. Here two issues can be dealt with in one go by using a 10mm spacer plate between the engine and the bellhousing. It is a standard

Audi part off an S4 2.7 V6 bi-turbo (you can see it in the pictures). With the spacer in place the clutch assembly fits in the bellhousing and the transaxle lines up with the pilot bearing in the 7A flywheel.

The 931 bellhousing fits the 944 transaxle.

I made my own engine mounts. While having the engine hanging from an engine hoist, bolt the bellhousing to the transaxle. Then simply weld up brackets that fill the gaps between the standard engine bolt holes for the stock mounts and the position on the cars rubber mounts on the front subframe.

As can be seen in the pictures, my 7A has a custom oilpan, exhaust header, and uses an turbo intake manifold from an AAN engine.

The original Audi oilpan nowhere near clears the 944 front subframe, neither do any other available pans. Because I cannot weld aluminium (stock 7A pan is alu) I took a steel 10V pan, used its rim (the bit with the hole pattern that mounts to the engine) and welded up a pan that does fit. Of course the oil pickup inside the pan also has to be modified.

The stock 7A intake manifold runs over the valve cover and has it's throttle body on the right hand side of the engine. Advantages of the AAN manifold are that it puts the thottle body close to where it was originally in the 944 making things easier with regards to the throttle cable and mounting the airflow sensor and airfilter. This manifold also accepts standard Bosch injectors whereas the 7A manifold only accepts Hitachi injectors (which are crap..). It also allows much easier access to the valve cover for valve adjustment. Oh wait, they're hydraulic.....
Downsides are that the short intake runners should theoratically hurt low rpm performance compared to the long intake runners of the stock 7A manifold (have not noticed this, the cars pulls strong in low rev band). The stock 7A water manifold that is mounted on the cylinderhead (and to which one of the radiator hoses connects) does not clear and has to be reworked, and the stock 7A throttle body does not fit (made an adapter).

The stock 7A exhaust manifold, which can be a cast iron piece or a tube header both do not clear the 944 firewall because these have the downpipe at the very back of the engine. In an Audi this is not a problem because the engine is mounted very much forward. Hence I welded up my own manifold and downpipe. It all connects to a standard (but stainless) endpipe.

I re-used the stock 944 radiator with electric cooling fan. Because the hoses for it connect to one (the left-hand) side of the engine and the radiator has the hose connections on left and right, I used some stainless pipe and flexible water hoses to connect everything. There is a lot of space to work with on the front of the engine because the 7A 5-cylinder is actually shorter then the Porsche 4-pot!

The alternator is mounted in the standard location on the 7A engine. I made custom brackets for the powersteering pump so this is mounted on the right hand side of the engine where it is normally located on a stock 944. Belt size will obviously depend on your bracket design but many different length belts can be bought so this should not be a problem.

I'm using a non-standard startermotor. The standard 5-cylinder starter motor has its solenoid sticking outwards of the engine (to the right). This provided me with very little clearance for my custom exhaust manifold between engine and engine bay. I found that an Audi 4-cylinder starter (off a 4-cylinder, 2.0 liter Audi 80) would also fit my engine (same gear & rotation direction) but the solenoid would point straight up where there is plenty space. Only one of the two threaded bolt holes in the starter line up with the engine though so the starter does have to be reworked a bit.

Wiring was a bit of a problem for me because the loom was entirely disconnected from the engine when I bought it. With help of people on a German forum I found the right location for each connector though. I will add photo's of this on my website soon. Linking the loom to the 944 wasn't difficult. I actually use a bit of the stock 944 wiring for the starter, alternator, and battery, and only linked up the Audi loom for power and ground to the injection computer, ignition, etc.

I probably forgot a lot of other issues, but I think is this the general procedure. Hope it is interesting for those interested
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LS1951  



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 58
Location: Allen, TX

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you used a spacer off of an Audi 2.7 turbo V6 does that mean the 2.7 V6 would also bolt up to a 931 bellhousing?

Craig
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1987 951- LS1 V8 -Sold
1981 931- Holbert 924H kit -Sold
1980 931- Sold
1965 912- 911 RS replica w/subaru ej20 turbo- Sold
1983 Callaway 944 turbo conversion- Sold
1987 944 Turbo
1977 924 project
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FSMITH010  



Joined: 24 Apr 2009
Posts: 101
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aparently, audi i5's, v6's and v8's will bolt to the 016.

so, yes.
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LS1951  



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 58
Location: Allen, TX

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really? I know it's well documented that the I5's and early 90's V8's bolt up but the later stuff does also? The 2.7 liter V6 twin turbo is a much more modern design. Audi never changed the bolt pattern? Maybe I should start a new thread on this. The Audi 2.7 turbo is one of my all time favorite motors. I'm surprised nobody has tried this motor swap.
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1987 951- LS1 V8 -Sold
1981 931- Holbert 924H kit -Sold
1980 931- Sold
1965 912- 911 RS replica w/subaru ej20 turbo- Sold
1983 Callaway 944 turbo conversion- Sold
1987 944 Turbo
1977 924 project
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FSMITH010  



Joined: 24 Apr 2009
Posts: 101
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LS1951 wrote:
Maybe I should start a new thread on this. The Audi 2.7 turbo is one of my all time favorite motors. I'm surprised nobody has tried this motor swap.


Do it. Not sure how it would work since the 4 cyl is tilted in the compartment. That is why the 5 cyl may be a better choice. The 5 cyl aftermarket options are a lot cheaper also. But definately would like to see it.
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bgene  



Joined: 22 Mar 2021
Posts: 1
Location: Moskow

PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding oil sump: there is an original VOLVO part 1257644 and tube 1257082 that mounting into such swap without cutting, but actually these parts are little bit expensive
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