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Cooling System Upgrades for Ideola's Ultra Wide Body 931
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bruce76-924  



Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 105
Location: Bradford, England

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan,

Just to put a slightley different angle on the cooling system, I run the standard pump with the bypass pipe and lower thermostat return pipe blocked off, this pushes water through the block and then out of pipe fitted instead of the rear core plug at the rear of the block. The water is then run through a second radiator and back out to a large diameter pipe ( like Steve's car ) to the back of the cylinder head, then finally exiting through the thermostat housing and back into the the first radiator.

I used to run it with 2 water pumps just to make it more complicated but I've just removed the second pump to try and simplify things a bit and the engine ran very cool when driving so I'll see what it's like with just the 1 pump.

Bruce.
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bass gt  



Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 971
Location: Johannesburg for now!!

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Min wrote:
Combustion efficiency. Min


Dan,

Min is spot on here. The ideal temperature for power is between 70 & 80 deg. C. For fuel efficiency, it is 80 to 92 deg C.
If the temp runs too cool, this will trigger the ECU to add fuel as it thinks the engine is still warming up. A choke effect really. So if you want max power, 75 degs is the target. Using a PWM output from the ECU is the ideal way to drive an electric pump as this will speed up or slow down according to the temperature vs output table on the PWM output.

Steve
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15510
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snagged a Wizard Cooling 951 Alu racing rad over the weekend:



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Last edited by ideola on Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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Raceboy  



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2322
Location: Estonia, Europe

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan, I read you're going to delete heater. Did you consider some alternative against sweating windscreen on humid days?

I'm in the dilemma right now as I made 30mm pipe from back of the head to water pump but I'm not sure if I should plumb a heater core also to it.

As I'm not aware of the heated windscreens for our cars (and it's cost would be sick high), I'm wondering what is Steves solution to this considering he races in foggy England
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15510
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peep, it's a good question...in my case, I was planning to just setup a blower in the cockpit (maybe one of the late 944 style centrifugal blowers as they produce good CFM) along with some ducting. Since my car will be a warm season only, I don't think it'll be necessary to have a heater core, only to have airflow moving over the interior of the windscreen. I may be mistaken, but I think that Vaughan has eliminated the heater core on his race car, and since we're in the same locale, I figured it would probably be suitable for me too.
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Raceboy  



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2322
Location: Estonia, Europe

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I hope Steve will chime in also regarding this.
Though I'm tending towards keeping the heater core and just letting all of the coolant from the back of the head flow through this and just use the fan when needed.
I weighed those stuff also (heater core together with early style plastic system and fan) and they weigh som 3 kg's which is not too much. Oh, forgot additional coolant, about 1 kg of that also.

But I think it's gonna stay.
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'83 924 2.6 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 2.4S hotrod
'90 944 S2 Cabriolet
'78 924 Carrera GT replica
'84 928 S
'91 944 S2, sold
'82 924S/931 "Gulf", sold
'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
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leadfoot  



Joined: 11 Dec 2002
Posts: 2222
Location: gOLD cOAST Australia

PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can just see it now... $$$$ racing car with this stuck to the dash...
http://www.outdoorgb.com/p/caframo_ceramic_demister_18106/

FYI for humidity control, air con is more effective than heating.

I bought a water solenoid valve that I never got around to installing.
Something like this... available in bore sizes up to 50mm. You can essentially create your own heater box and run the flow through the solenoid off temperature control etc from the ECU...
Working temp is to 80C but it would have a safety factor built into it.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/solenoid-valve-solenoid-valves-water-solenoid-valve_W0QQitemZ190274250163QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_15?hash=item190274250163&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318
Stu
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15510
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been doing a bit more digging on the electric water pump setup, and this Jabsco pump looks like it might be an upgraded alternative to the Davies Craig unit in just about every facet, including lifespan (3500 vs 1500 hrs), flow (29 vs 22 GPM), and cost (<$200 vs $270).
Jabsco 50840-0024 Cyclone Circulation Pump
  • Pump Body: Stainless Steel
  • Port Size: 3/4" pipe threads. Available with NPT or BPS threads.
  • Flow: 110 Litres/min (29.7 gallons/min)
  • Pressure: up to 0.6 bar (8.7psi)
  • Impeller: Stainless Steel Anti-clog impeller design
  • Shaft Seal: Mechanical
  • Motor: Continuously rated, Motor life 3500 hours. ISO 8846 MARINE and USCG Regulations for Ignition Protection ē ISO 8849 MARINE Bilge Pump Standard.


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Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11410
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For engine coolant? I have the predecessor to this pump for my IC, and I don't believe it is suitable for two reasons. First, the flow rate listed in the specs is without resistance. Once you start pushing coolant through the engine and rad, the flow drops considerably (i.e., running it out of a bucket, it shot water over the house, but running it through my IC core and heat exchanger turns the flow into a fast trickle).

Also, they don't like 200 degree water (ask me how I know).
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Last edited by Rasta Monsta on Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15510
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh. Hmm.
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bass gt  



Joined: 02 Dec 2004
Posts: 971
Location: Johannesburg for now!!

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guy's,

My strategy for controlling the misting of the screen is nothing more ellaborate than wiping the inside with Rainex!! Same stuff you use on motorcycle helmets to stop the visor fogging. Remember that my car is used for short runs.
However, if i need to address this further, i will just fit an electric heater unit, such as those truckers use to heat their cabs. I can fit it anywhere, which is nice for the weight distribution, and just run an air hose/pipe to the screen. I really don't want to be diverting engine coolant into the passenger comartment and then having a heat exhanger and associated equipment. Just to much for my application.
Alternatively, why not modify the 911 concept and put an air chamber around the centre area of the exhaust, run a tube from it and a variable speed fan? Then you have warm air without the hassle of running coolant pipes into and out of the car.

Steve
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simsport  



Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 573
Location: UK Warrington

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:36 am    Post subject: Screen Reply with quote

Steve
Remember your last season when it rained a lot!.........well rather than buy rainex I used washing up liquid on the inside of the screen and it lasted for ages. The trick seems to be to smooth it on thinly and leave it to dry for as long as possible. If you lightly polish it off the thin residue is clear but works great.....guess you have done this being a biker....my visor always used snot to keep it clear!


Cheers
Simon
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Martijnus  



Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Posts: 2019
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve, you should be really sure that the exhaust isn't leaking

however, the citroŽn 2cv had a similar setup for interior heating.
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pocketscience  



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 1650
Location: Sydney, Australia... mate!

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: Screen Reply with quote

simsport wrote:
Steve
Remember your last season when it rained a lot!.........well rather than buy rainex I used washing up liquid on the inside of the screen and it lasted for ages. The trick seems to be to smooth it on thinly and leave it to dry for as long as possible. If you lightly polish it off the thin residue is clear but works great.....guess you have done this being a biker....my visor always used snot to keep it clear!


Washing liquid is great - however you are right - the trick is to keep a thin layer. I remember being inundated with bubbles on one early morning ride! Scared the be-jesus outta me at the time!!


G.
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RC  



Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 2636
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being a scuba diver I can assure you that the best recommended way to prevent the glass on your mask fogging up is to spit (saliva only ) on the inside, rub it around, then a quick rinse.

Might get a dry mouth after doing a windscreen.
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