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gm 3800 supercharged into 1977 924
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v8carreragts  



Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 661
Location: Tucson, AZ

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes but it is the next generation Buick. It has a balance shaft just above the cam and is remarkably smooth. They changed the oil pump from the traditional gear type that humg off of the front cover to a gear rotor typr driven off of the front of the crankshaft like the 924 has. They went to roller lifters in 91. You will find that many of the parts look just like the 3.8L previous versions. The 3800 was only used in front wheel drive.

However, the 2.8L camaro and s-10 bellhousings should still bolt on and possible the flywheel from the 2.8L. Although the 23800 still uses the flywheel in the engine balance so it would need to be rebalanced.

There were a lot of supercharged 3800's so finding one shouldn't be too difficult.

I don't know what one of these weighs but it would be a little less than the 3.8 because most uses a plastic intake manifold and all the 3.8's used cast iron. The 4.1L was the only one with an aluminum intake. The 3.8L weighted about 495#.

The first 924 swap I did was with a 3.8 from a turbo Regal. The carbed one. I used a sidedraft Delorto carb on it to fit under the hood. The Carrera GT schoop covered the spot where the turbo stuck through the hood.
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chad-tanner  



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 217
Location: New Madrid,MO

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

v8carreragts, you are very correct.I missed your first post when I was reading through the thread.sorry about that.
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mcadam1121  



Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 109
Location: wichita, KS

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok just to clarify im no using the buick v6
im goin to use the gm series 2 3800 v6 which is a totally diferent engine
ive been looking into this and i cant find what bell housing i would use to do the swap
some web sites say that the series 2 is a 90 degree v6 and will bolt up to a sbc bell housing and then others say that it is a 90 degree v6 but it has a 60 degree bolt pattern
so what the #### do i need to find a bell housing out of a v6 camaro or will a regular v8 90 degree bell housing work
and another thing if a v8 bell housing wont work would a bell housing out off of a 2.8 v6 out of a s10 bolt up
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v8carreragts  



Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 661
Location: Tucson, AZ

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, but the 3800 is a Buick. It is still the basic 3.8L but has some refinements along with a balance shaft. It is a 90 degree v6. It uses the GM front wheel drive bellhousing which was used on all of the Chevy 2.8L v6 engines. Is is not the old Chevy 6 and v8 or the BOP type. You can find one of these in an old 2.8L S10 or 3rd Gen Camaro with a 2.8L v6. This is the only bellhousing available unless someone sells a scattershield for the 2.8L.

The only other problem you will have is finding a flywheel to fit. The front wheel drive crankshaft has a much smaller mounting surface than the older Buick v6 engine. I doubt the early v6 crank could be fitted because the nose of the crank is much different due to the gear rotor oil pump that is fitted. The early engine used a conventional gear pump driven from the cam gear. It might be possible to fit a 2.8L Chevy flywheel but if it could be done you will need to get it rebalanced because the 3800 uses an external balance and the Chevy does not.
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mcadam1121  



Joined: 02 Feb 2008
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Location: wichita, KS

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

how is it a buick engine when it is used in pontiac old chevy and buick
just cause im pulling mine out of park avenue dosent mean it is a buick i believe it would be qualified as simply a gm engine

but ive got a question how much does the leaning tower of power that i pulled out of my 924 weigh
it is not a very light engine so i figure if i through in a 3800 it wont be that much of weight difference so it shouldn't screw up the handling to much
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Min  



Joined: 04 Nov 2002
Posts: 2365
Location: Vernon, British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcadam1121 wrote:
how is it a buick engine when it is used in pontiac old chevy and buick
just cause im pulling mine out of park avenue dosent mean it is a buick i believe it would be qualified as simply a gm engine


because buick designed it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_3800_engine

Min
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chad-tanner  



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 217
Location: New Madrid,MO

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.chrfab.com/Transmissions.htm
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chad-tanner  



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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Location: New Madrid,MO

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All fwd Gm have the same pattern, "CHRF" builds 3800SC's and there is also a Co. that makes rwd bellhouing for qaud four's,I'll look for that link. Plus you can find everything you want to know about the 3800sc at pennocks fiero forum.Search pennocks,you should find plenty of info about flywheel swaps.
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77.5 Porsche 924/4.9L cadillac swap

Inspector: These brakes look completely inadequate.
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v8carreragts  



Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 661
Location: Tucson, AZ

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to Porsche the 924 engine weighs 313# dry and the 924 turbo engine weighs 363# dry. The Buick v6 weighs 370# give or take depending on the model. The newer ones (gen III) are probably lighter because they use a plastic intake manifold.
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chad-tanner  



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 217
Location: New Madrid,MO

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wanted to clear up some things."v8carreragts" is on the right track for a factory bellhousing, like he said,2.8 s10 or camaro is where I would start.There are plenty of after market options thou.many 3800sc have been converted to RWD,for use in sand rails and dune buggys,along with the N* cadillac, and Q4 which are the same bolt pattern.It it also the same as my 4.9 cadillac swap.I think the 3800sc would be a great swap for a 924,It would love the lower geared trans.If you have searched pennocks,you know the 4.9 and 3800sc are a huge rivalry in the fiero world.I would love to see someone do this swap.
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mcadam1121  



Joined: 02 Feb 2008
Posts: 109
Location: wichita, KS

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have one ? who owns buick hm i wonder is it gm yea it is
therefore the 3800 is a gm engine i dont care what wikipedia says ive read it already
the duramax is an izuzu engine but it is used in the chevy and gmc
and then the cummins was designed by ford but would you say a dodge has a ford engine
no you wouldnt
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mcadam1121  



Joined: 02 Feb 2008
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Location: wichita, KS

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok so for an update if anybody cares
im not goin to be using the 3800 supercharged
im goin to be using a 3800 na but im goin to turbo it
it is goin to be pretty sweet
i got the bell housing figured flywheel figured
the only problem so far is the clutch
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tuurbo  



Joined: 09 Aug 2007
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Location: East Windsor, New Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok but supposing one wanted to keep the automatic, would that make the swap easier or harder?

Also, why not the supercharger? Clearance? What if someone was willing to cut the hood - would the bulge be outrageous?
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mcadam1121  



Joined: 02 Feb 2008
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Location: wichita, KS

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well i have another up date i guess
it wont be gettin 3800 at all its gettin a 350
my dad got a truck with a manual tranny that was bad so im snaggin the engine and bell housing from the truck and run that set up
i figure i will run the set up until the transaxle blows up and then ill get a 911 6spd transaxle

it wouldnt be getting a supercharged 3800 because the engine i was gettin from my dad was n/a

the car has had a manual as long as i have had it
i wasn't goin to swap the tranny

but i figure that an auto tranny would be easier then a manual engine swap

besides you can look at the swap the guy did with the cadillac v8

but that guy could have made it easier on himself by instead of takin the fwd tranny and makin his bell housing
he could have just got a bell housing from a rwd tranny with a 60 degree v6 or of course a cadillac v8
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v8carreragts  



Joined: 05 Sep 2003
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Location: Tucson, AZ

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to start an argument here but the 3800 IS a Buick. There are two versions, series I and series II. The series I was based on the standard 3800 but the series II was redesigned. The deck height was shortened along with the rods and pistons and it had new heads. The normally aspirated version II made HP and Torque equal to the early supercharged Series I. The series II supercharged made 240HP. They are all 90 deg v6's.

I have a friend that is a Buick v6 Guru so I have seen all versions of these engines. Insistently, the Buick v6 is based on the failed 215 aluminum v8. GM gave up on the aluminum v8 because about 80% of all blocks cast were defects. They were trying to cast the blocks with cast iron sleeves as one unit instead of casting the block and then machining the bores to fit the sleeves. Too much core shift made the blocks unusable. They ended up selling the design and tooling for the v8 to Rover.

The v6 began as a 198 then 225 then it was sold to Kaiser-Jeep which turned into AMC. Buick then bought it back and it became a 231 (all odd fire at this point) Then they designed a split journal crank to make it even fire and increased the size to 252. Then when they began using it in FWD applications they began calling it 3.8 and 4.1L. A 196/3.2L fell in here as well for a short time. When FWD became the norm they made a 181/3.0L, a 3.3/3300 was also available. I don't believe that they ever used the GM corprate transverse bellhousing bolt pattern. The RWD version had the BOP bolt pattern and the FWD had a slightly modified version of the BOP. There are so many different versions that it makes it difficult to list in a short list.

Here is some good reading on the timeline of the Buick v6.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V6_engine
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