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morghen · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 9095 Location: Romania

Anyone ever thinks of this ? i'd love to install a 944 ABS system in my car.
Do any of you know more about the 944 ABS system or any other options ?
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Chrenan · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 3903 Location: Canada

Introduced in 87, you'll need the late offset wheel setup to fit the ABS system. I'm not a big fan of ABS, but from what I've been told it is actually an OK system, not very intrusive. I did a few panic stops on loose gravel to see where it would kick in on my 951, it activates much later than the crap ABS systems I have experienced on various econo-boxes. In my mind that is good.
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1987 951 - M193 Version for Japan

morghen · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 9095 Location: Romania

i have S2 rear setup and eventualy i'll get the fronts converted to aluminium too. ABS would make the drive much more relaxing. Right now i'm shit scared that the brakes are not powerfull enough and as the roads here are never clean...its a good piece of mind.
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924RACR · Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:39 am Post subject:

No no no no no no no no no.

Just a REALLY BAD IDEA.

Trust me, I do this shit for a living, for Bosch. ABS/TCS/ESC systems are my speciality. It takes a lot of work and very talented people to match the systems to the car.

You stand a very good chance of making your car much more dangerous, rather than safer.

If you don't think you have enough brakes - chances are you don't have enough tire.
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morghen · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 9095 Location: Romania

please elaborate. I was thinking of taking the ABS from a 951S or a 944S2 and install/acomodate it to my 924 ofcourse for safety reasons...as i mentioned our roads are not always clean..actualy never clean and we have lots of dust snow ice and stuff on it.
Please give more details.

PS: i dont belive in talent.
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Chrenan · Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 3903 Location: Canada

I won't speak for Vaughan as he is the expert on this, I'm sure he'll chime in again. My guess is that what he was getting at was the stock 944/951/968 system is programmed for the car it originally came on. Vehicle weight, the dynamics of weight transfer during braking, tire size, suspension setup, and many other factors would have gone into the design. Simply swapping in the setup from another car wouldn't take into account all these factors.
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1987 951 - M193 Version for Japan

924RACR · Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:59 am Post subject:

Yes, far too unsafe; too much chance of things failing, or not working properly in the first place. Even if you were to clone the whole 951 suspension, brakes, tires etc, and match the performance (which really wasn't all that great with such old systems, both software and hardware), you would still be greatly at risk for failures due to poor wiring, etc (20 years old and then subjected to transplant to another vehicle).

What's the worst that could happen? Complete brake failure, no stopping ability whatsoever. Really bad. You can kill yourself, your car, and plenty of innocent bystanders.

Don't do it.
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#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

morghen · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 9095 Location: Romania

hmm, i was under the impression that the ABS is not fully in control of the brake system but only slightly contorling it, but if you say that it is like that...then i'll reconsider some new performance rubber and bigger calipers.
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924RACR · Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:10 am Post subject:

Oh yes... done wrong, it can completely disable your entire braking system.
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'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

tuurbo · Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject:

ic932 · Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 1104 Location: UK

an abs upgrade can't even be contemplated without S2/T front spindles/hubs and abs specific rear trailing arms anyway.
the spindles have a hole cast into them to accomadate the abs sensor and the hub carries the toothed ring. same applies for the rear arms.

if you are going to do a brembo caliper upgrade anyway, use 951/S2 parts rather then adapting/modifying 931 parts.

once you reach this stage at least abs is at least worth investigation.

i'm not convinced it's a bad idea or that the 944 abs system is as tailor-made to specific 944 models as mentioned above. after all the ecu that governs it is a 928 part!

once intalled it's not hard to get it proffesionally evaluated and tested...

there's a choice of pressure regulators to address balance ect...

924RACR · Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:33 am Post subject:

IC - you scare me.

Professionally evaluated and tested? Who's qualified???
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Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype

morghen · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 9095 Location: Romania

i never said anything about adapting or modifying...the ideea was thrown here with the known fact that i have a CGT replica...rear 951 arms and front 931 spindles and arms. And yea i want 951 calipers by the way...if any of you has a set of calipers that you want to sell...

Finding out that the ABS is 100% in control of the brake...makes me say no. I'll just upgrade the brakes to 951 calipers(now i have the 944 ones) and buy better tires.
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ic932 · Joined: 11 Feb 2005 Posts: 1104 Location: UK

there's only two possible ways of installing 951 calipers/discs morghen.
either use 951 parts wholesale or adapt/modify your existing 931 hubs/spindles to accomadate 951 discs and calipers.

what exactly suprise's you (

) about what i suggested? dont jump on my back mate, i was only giving my opinion about things i have already acheived (many times).

no need to be scared, i'm not contemplating abs. but i will run the idea through my uncle. although he is'nt an abs tech he served on the polaris nuclear sub fleet as a hydraulic engineer. i'm sure he will know and understand the issues involved....or he will know a man that does lol!

i thought morghen's "i don't believe in talent" comment was far scarier than anything i said....

SO A.B.S IS NOT A POSSIBLE UPGRADE OR THE 931?......bollocks!!!

morghen · Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 9095 Location: Romania

hey sorry mate, didnt mean to jump on your back.....at all.

The ideea was to use a complete 951 braking system and add the aBS system in some way.

I dont belive in talent...i belive that anyone can do almost anything...i'll admit that some are naturaly biased with some abilities.

I'm SURE that it could be done...but being an engineer myself...my estimation of the chances of this system to fail tells me it would be better to just drive carefully and get new tires...think of it..924RACR says that the aBS is fully in control of the brakes.
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