924Board.org

dwak · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 839 Location: Eastern Ontario

Am researching fuel alcohol production these days and am contemplating setting up a small production plant in central america where I have a few connections. I am finding lots of info on the net but no decent forums like this one. Anyone know of one?
Also, has anyone tried straight ethanol or ethanol/gas mixes in 924's. Turbo and S model's especially.

dwak

Peter_in_AU · Joined: 29 Jul 2001 Posts: 2743 Location: Sydney, Australia

I've run across a few good sites with info on making fuel alcohol while researching ethanol for human consumption (purely for personal use of course) but didn't save any URLs.

My alcohol ends up costing about $3.60 per litre of 95% ethanol so it's a bit expensive to throw into a car. Besides, it tastes too good.

This site http://www.homedistiller.org/ has a lot of good introductory info and maybe some useful links. It's human consumption oriented but there is some info on fuel if I remember correctly.

I'd suggest that google is your friend here.
_________________
1979 924 (Gone to a better place)
1974 Lotus 7 S4 "Big Valve" Twin-cam (waiting)
1982 924 (As featured on Wikipedia)

Learn to love your multimeter and may the search be with you

dwak · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 839 Location: Eastern Ontario

Thanks Peter. I know that one. 'Running_on_alcohol.tripod.com' is a great site too but mostly for vehicular fuel.
Keep up the great work, mate.

dwak

CBass · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 2807 Location: Vancouver, Canada

My god, what are you using as a mash for that, for it to be so expensive?

Even using pure sugar, it should only cost around $2.50 CDN for a liter... Using grain it should be about $0.75...

As for building a plant, there's not all that much to it. You need to build a distillition apparatus, a reflux column type is a must, and you need to have an apparatus for chemical denaturing to remove what little water remains after distillation... You can set up a small scale plant at home, just make sure that none of it ends up going around the neighbourhood, that's how you end up police at your door...
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'81 931 in various states of assembly

Peter_in_AU · Joined: 29 Jul 2001 Posts: 2743 Location: Sydney, Australia

Pat Dolan · Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:48 pm Post subject:

endwrench · Joined: 07 Dec 2002 Posts: 1631 Location: Victor, Montana

leadfoot · Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:11 pm Post subject:

Hey peter at 1.31$ for premium fuel now it won't be long before you receive a PM from me....
Leadfoot

_________________
1981 ROW 924 Turbo -
carbon fiber GT mish mash
LS1 conversion in progress...

Ozzie · Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:58 pm Post subject:

I am doing the same as Peter and after I have added some bourbon flavour and soaked it in oak chips I have a pretty good brew afterwards.

The police couldn't give 2 hoots. Its the tax man who wants his cut.
Customs and excise.
_________________
Porsche 924 1984 (UK import) NA
Its AUTO and its BLACK
Montego Black on black/red
Engineer of Electro/Mechanical Systems Maintenance

dwak · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 839 Location: Eastern Ontario

Cool, now we're cooking with alcohol. The dehydrating is necessary if you intend to blend with gasoline but otherwiise you can use the high proof straight just fine. Also, end prices are a fraction of pump gasoline if you use market price/wholesale molasses or corn etc.
I've ordered the plans for a mini-industrial/column still.
If you're going for personal use better use silver solder etc.

dwak

Ozzie · Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 7:29 am Post subject:

I use SS, no copper or lead, rubber seals and food grade hoses.
_________________
Porsche 924 1984 (UK import) NA
Its AUTO and its BLACK
Montego Black on black/red
Engineer of Electro/Mechanical Systems Maintenance

CBass · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 2807 Location: Vancouver, Canada

Copper is fine to use, in fact it has a chemical reaction which breaks down some of the nastier stuff coming through the still.

Peter, you can save a bundle by dropping that expensive yeast. EC-1118 wine yeast will brew to almost as high a proof, 36-40 proof(18-20%) given the right temperatures. You can start it as high as 30c first few days, although you have to gradually lower the temperature to around 15c for the last few days. I found working to about 10% alcohol is faster anyways, considering you can brew it at higher temps, faster and the product is cleaner and less smelly.

With the right kind of still, you can see 180+ proof on teh first run, all you need is a reflux column. 1.5 meters of 60cm pipe, packed with steel wool pot scrubbers will result in about 95% alcohol on the first run, provided the distillation is at the correct temperatures.

I can understand not wanting to bother with mashing, it's really a lot of extra effort to go to when you can just mix sugar and be done with it.

As for denaturing/dehydrating, the chemical dehydrants I have used denature the alcohol by their nature<pun intended>, so I've always referred to it as denaturing.

For a personal use still, copper and lead free solder work fine. You don't have to go to the trouble of brazing, etc.

My first large design used a 50 liter stainless steel keg. I cut out the valve and screwed a male threaded 2" stainless pipe coupling into the hole. I soldered around this to seal it, I had plans for welding it but never had the equipment handy back then. This attached to a 2" cast iron female pipe coupling, threaded onto a" 2" threaded to 2" female torch on fitting", which then was soldered to a 3' length of 2" copper pipe, packed with steel wool to make a reflux column. After that it went through a smaller length of rigid pipe with a 2' water jacket, the inlet and outlet pipes for the jacket passed through the still column, helping to control the reflux temperature.

This design would swallow two full 5 gallon buckets, and produce as much as 7 liters per run of 95% alcohol.

Of course, this was never for personal use, the stuff was way too strong to drink, and I don't drink cheap booze anyways.
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'81 931 in various states of assembly

dwak · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 839 Location: Eastern Ontario

Cbass, did you ever try using your 'high test' in a vehicle/924?
A popular dehydrant is Zeolyte which absorbs the last bit of water and is reusable when dried.
What licencing do we need in Canada? In the States it's a simple permit.

Keep the faith,
dwak

Pat Dolan · Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:25 pm Post subject:

dwak · Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 839 Location: Eastern Ontario

I was under the impression that when hydrous ethanol is mixed with gasoline the water separates and settles at the bottom. Otherwise, a reasonable amount of water in straight ethanol is a good thing. I may be wrong but I don't like it.

dwak