924Board.org

[yOnKiNaToR]

ok...i've gotten into a few arguements about this and i wanna hear some experience.

a '96+ civic h/b (at around 21-2200 lbs) with 160 hp. my 924S at around 2743 lbs. it seems like the civic would win but would it really? the civic only has 112 lbs. of tq or something like that. the 924S has 160. doesn't torque add into the picture here? would the civic run 14's in the 1/4 mile with a b16 or something with 160 hp?

according to hp per lbs. the civic wins by numbers but there are a few things i dont' understand. how come they go by hp when really, what you feel is torque?

[teo]

Power versus Torque - Part 1
So which do you need more of to go fast - power or torque?

http://www.autospeed.com/A_0744/page1.html


Power versus Torque - Part 2
Torque is for acceleration and power is for top speed... or is it?

http://www.autospeed.com/A_0755/page1.html

[MAS]

The 924S has more torque than the Honda... but even more important the 924S has a much flatter torque curve, and it produces more torque at a lower rpm than the Honda.

For example, the 2.5 liter engine in the 924S is already producing 90% of its peak torque at only 2,000 rpm. This is why if you tromp on the gas in a 924S in 3rd gear, between about 2,000 and 3,000 rpm, you'll out-accelerate a Honda who is in the same gear.

I've found that my (stock) 924S can out-accelerate a 170 hp Vtec Integra, if you know how to use the torque band on the Porsche properly. Ultimately, the Integra has slightly more power... but it's over a narrower rev range and produced at a much higher rpm (between 6,000 and 8,000).

-MAS

[yOnKiNaToR]

but you have to compensate for the gearing also. i assume that the honda is geared lower for more acceleration to compensate for lack of torque. also, the honda has more power which is actually how fast your car go. (according to the article) torque is for driveability and that it's really not necessary to have high torque. the car will only "feel" faster. plus, the honda has power through a higher rpm, taking advantage of the power it can from each gear.(can use power in each gear longer as it doesn't redline as fast)

[cs]

from my experience civics are geared quite tall, they are economy cars not sports cars. i'm not sure about a 96 though. were you talking about top speed or acceleration anyways.

[cs]

unless it has a god like turbo then i doubt the honda would run 14's in the 1/4.

[ This Message was edited by: cs on 2001-11-16 09:14 ]

[yOnKiNaToR]

well, i think it's possible...my car can run 15.9 with like 2900-3000 pounds (according to manual) and my car has 160 hp.

the civic would also have 160 hp but only weighs 2100, and prolly has less drivetrain loss. from driving my moms civic, it seems about par with my porsche's gear ratios. so, this other civic h/b should have relatively close to the same gear ratios. also, i'm talking about 0-60 times and 1/4 mile times. in top speed, my car stock would prolly win

[yOnKiNaToR]

well, when i did the conversion..

horsepower = tq * 4500 rpm (max tq at that rpm) / 5252

Porsche: 160 * 4500 / 5252 = 137
Civic: 111 * 7000 / 5252 = 147

seems weird to me

[cs]

is that supposed to be the top speed. does seem weird considering i just read a road test on a 96 civic dx saying it's top speed was just a bit over 100. and 0-60 of over 8 sec. couldn't find a 1/4 time. i'm looking for this site i used to go to that has just about every road test summary you could imagine, but i can't find it.

[cs]

ok, here's what i've come up with so far.
the 96 dx has a 0-60 of 8.5, the EX has a 0-60 of 7.9. the ex is the fastest of the bunch followed by the dx. gear ratios: the dx has 3.72:1, the ex 4.25:1, the gear ratios are the same for both transmissions. they are: 3.25,1.78,1.17,.91, and .70. and i think that would give the dx a much taller overall gearing and the ex a slightly taller gearing that the 924. i'm not really sure what the 924S is off the top of my head, but i imagine it's close to the 931.
and this source also reports the honda having 106 hp@6200, not 160 hp, and 103 ft.lb @ 4600, weighing 2,300 lb. 160 hp for a civic does seem high considering that's almost as much as what the ones have that i've seen with turbo kits.

[ This Message was edited by: cs on 2001-11-16 13:15 ]

[MAS]

Hey CS, Car and Driver's first test of a 924S:

0-60 mph in 7.5 secs
1/4 mile in 15.7

However, I've seen 7.4 secs too in another magazine. If you launch aggressively you can get them down to about 7 secs flat.

-MAS

(1987 924S)

[ This Message was edited by: MAS on 2001-11-16 14:20 ]

[teo]

I don't know the US designations but the
Civic with the 1.6 VTI VTEC motor has 160 HP, and top speed is over 130 mph and not 100. Redline starts around 8000 rpm, and around 6000 it's like someone started to push it from the back. My father-in-law had one, so these are not from papers, but from experience.

[cs]

this was a us test, with redline at 6900. i'm fairly sure we didn't have the vtec in hondas as early as 96, just the acuras. i believe it was car and driver that the numbers came from and i'm sure they just copied the hp and torque figures given by the factory.

[cs]

ok i've got some numbers from a different source for comparison. the dx still has 106hp, nust be factory rating, the ex has 127 hp @ 6,600 with 9.6:1 compression and 107 ft.lb. of torque. here's where the difference begins, the new source got acceleration time for the ex(the fast one) of 0-60 in 9.1 sec. and 1/4 of 16.8. going by this(for north america at least) i would say the car and drive test would be very much on the fast side since they got half a second better 0-60 time out of the slow one.
oh yeah, the dx engine is not a vtec but the ex engine is.

[ This Message was edited by: cs on 2001-11-17 01:59 ]

[Rick MacLaren]

The EX is hot, relatively speaking. I'd be careful about racing a car that a guy has done up - especially a Honda. There's a Honda in town that has an Acura 2.0 litre engine and that little car smokes. Remember, every performance part manufacturer on the planet makes parts for Honda. Not many manufacturers make them for the Porsche 924S.