924Board.org

[924guy]

so i just finished pulling my turbo and exhaust manifold. ive done the turbo once before, but then i was lucky enough to be able to borrow a friends shop and use his tools and lift. This round, its in my garage, and on my back (which is already sore.)

Pulling the turbo really isnt that difficult, providing youve got the right tools, and there is plenty of detailed info on that in the various manuals. the only trouble i ran into was a cracked wastegate mounting plate. annoying but manageable. the turbo exhaust manifold, however, is a bit different story. I couldnt find any mention of it removal in any detail in any of my documents or manuals, and ive got a good deal of reference materials.

Maybe it because its apparently so simple, it didnt need mentioning, and it is in theory, but in reality its a bear..so thats were ill concentrate so at least theres something somewhere for reference, might as well be here..
I needed to remove mine because i suspected a hairline crack on the underside, near the motor mount. turned out it wasnt cracked, but the gasket were blown in that area, and the forward sealing ring was half gone..no wasted effort there..

anyhow..

First , id highly recommend spraying every nut and bolt with a really good penetrant, i used pj blaster (goood stuff!) start spraying a week or two ahead, and let it soak in for several days,respraying often, and make sure you crawl under the car and get the underside manifold bolts. the benefits will far out way a little inconvienience, and the stuff cleans the grime out as well.

Next plan on removing your starter,exhaust and turbo charger assembly, i really dont see how you can pull the manifold with removing the turbo. even if you could in some miraculous fashion get to those bolts, you still wont get the unit out of the engine bay.

Now that the turbo is out of the way, the vehicle is nice and high up on jackstands and secure ( i got mine up about 17 inches) , you can start loosening the bolts. i started on the top set as they were the easiest to get too. expect a stud or two to come out in the process, probably a good idea to replace all the studs as well if you can..

Youll need a variety of wrenches to get to the various nuts. offset, box, might even be able to use a socket in some places, just use care. theyre going to be on there tight, but you can still snap one fairly easily, then youll be pulling the head off to fix it, guarenteed. if any studs backed out on you, you may not be able to completely remove them, just loosen them as much as possible and you can come back to them once youve got the bottom bolts off, and can manuever the manifold a bit to give you more clearance. dont forget the mainfold to turbo flange bolts as well. mine required a 12 point socket, and wobble extentions. theres a knock out panel in the fender you can remove by bending a few tabs back, this will give you a little extra working space.

Once the top side is done, get your worklight and start the bottom. the two bolts nearest the front of the engine are gotten too fairly easily from under the front above the oil cooler, remove the two rear bolts from under the car towards the back of the engine. the rear most bolt will be the most challenging, as its above the motormount bracket. You can either jack and support the engine, and remove the motor mount(recommended), or you can get to it without removing the motor mount bracket. you have to go in from the front with a box wrench, theres little room to wrench, maybe 1/4 turns max, and pray it doesnt strip..

With all the nuts off, it still wont just pop off if you havent pulled the motor mount bracket, but it can be removed. remove the two small nuts that secure the metal heat shield around the motor mount itself, and drop it down as far as it will go. this will give you just enough wiggle room to free the manifold. itll take a bit of manuevering, but once its free of the rear stud, puill it towards the front of the engine and twist downward. its heavy, dont crush your head.

The whole process is quite a workout, isometrics has nothing on this, my arms are sore, my back hurts, and i left quite a bit of skin and blood on my garage floor..but hopefully this will make it a little easier for someone else who has to do the same job. all in all , the porsche gods must of been smiling today, because i didnt break a stud or strip a bolt (though i came really close. if i didnt have a set of truly oddball sockets, one wouldve been a goner..)

I need to order some seals and hardware, but if i run into any snags when im ready to reassemble, ill update this..
_________________
Eric
78 924
82 931 SE "smokey"
99' VehiCross
Y2K Honda Insight
http://www.cardomain.com/id/924Guy
Performance by Pasha

[macBdog]

Hey thanks alot for that writeup, I found it very informative as my turbo needs some oil seals pretty badly. Im not very experienced with a wrench nor do I have a set of oddball sockets so I think Il go for the engine out method. More effort but less risk im thinking.
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1979 931 with a 350 chev
1973 911E with EFI

[numbbers]

Good write-up. Can we get this added to the tech section?
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1980 924 Turbo

[924guy]

the "oddball" socket that saved me was a 12 point 15/32.. out of a set i bought years ago on the road when i had some trouble for like 9.99.. cheapos, made in sri lanka..today, that socket was priceless..in fact, that set is the only ive ever seen with .5 increments on the metric side (ie- 4mm, 4.5mm, 5mm, 5.5mm etc....and the equivelent in standard sizes.. good to have around..
glad you guys think the write up will be helpfull, just have some one edit for spelling and grammar first
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Eric
78 924
82 931 SE "smokey"
99' VehiCross
Y2K Honda Insight
http://www.cardomain.com/id/924Guy
Performance by Pasha

[Lizard]

the factory bolts for the 3 bolt flange for the turbo to exhaust manifold are 12 point 12mm, (no idea what the equivilent SAE is)
I have also dont a write up for this for epsolyn (where is he anyways havent seen many posts from him), which it was suggested be put in the tech but never got put in the mods are pretty busy
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3 928s,

[924guy]

[Lizard]

no other problems encountered, do a search for it look for turbo and epsylon
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3 928s,

[Vince Ponz]

Change the rubber do dad inside the where the spring is. It may look good but worth changing it. If you get a chance get a 1 bar spring and replace the one you have. Email Soyracer he may have one.
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"Never let them see you sweat"
77.5 924 modified track car
79 931 Euro stock
88 924S SE
87 911 Targa stock

[CMXXXI]

When you re-mount the turbo, do not tighten anything all the way until you have the block mount bolts threaded in, and the turbo-to-manifold bolts threaded. You have to put the mount/turbo in as an assembly because of clearance issues, you can't bolt up the mount and then expect to "insert" the turbo. I recommend getting all the bolts started because it is the "slop" provided by the loose bolts that allows everything to get aligned correctly.

Also, you have to get that small 90* rubber hose installed as you get the turbo/mount back in place. If you bolt everything up and forget to put the rubber elbow hose on, you have to take everything apart again. Not enough room/slack to replace the rubber elbow with the turbo mounted. (?Did that make sense?)

As you now know, replacing the turbo isn't necessarily technically difficult, but it requires a considerable level of effort. It certainly isn't something that you will want to do again anytime soon. As with may repairs, it is often easier to take things apart than it is to put them back together again - correctly. I've done it with the engine in place, and also after the engine has been pulled. IMO for the level of effort required, it's easier to pull the engine and replace the turbo with the engine on a stand. It takes about the same amount of time, but with far less aggravation. Besides, with the engine out there is a bunch of other things you can do to it that you wouldn't necessarily consider if it were still sitting in the engine bay.
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'79 Eurospec 931

[Vince Ponz]

Eric, Peter pulled the engine from my car and did all the changes to the engine while it was out. All new hoses and replaced anything that did not look right.

Vince
_________________
"Never let them see you sweat"
77.5 924 modified track car
79 931 Euro stock
88 924S SE
87 911 Targa stock

[924guy]

originally my plan was to pull the engine, and completely rebuild it. but im pinching pennies now, and concentrating only on the "need immediate repair items." So i had to scratch off investing in an engine hoist, engine stand, and a couple of hundred dollars in gaskets and parts, that id like to replace, but dont "need" to replace. instead im putting a little more fundage into replacing the higher wear items i can get too. i just sent off a long parts list to pelican , an am waiting for the pricing (its gonna be high im sure, but 99% of the list is "has to be new" consumable items.)
the lower end is tight, and front assembly is in good shape, so mainly i just have to worry about the exhaust and turbo assembly, and some of the oddball hoses in the egr system, and ofcourse the previosly mentioned suspension items. but luckily ive been collecting parts for quite sometime, and the remaining investment is mostly in gaskets and nuts and bolts.. I do have a concern about the condition of the valve stem seals, but ill worry about that later, and can consider that issue when i upgrade the cam after the rest is back together and the car is running again...

Ill come out this project with not only a fresh turbo, but a rebuilt wastegate with a 1 bar spring, adjustable koni shocks/struts all around, stage 2 cam, upgraded brake lines , top mount intercooler,polished wheels, and a full carrera gt body. i think thats a pretty good start..
_________________
Eric
78 924
82 931 SE "smokey"
99' VehiCross
Y2K Honda Insight
http://www.cardomain.com/id/924Guy
Performance by Pasha

[Vince Ponz]

Eric I plan to stop by in May. How is the Jensen Beach area.
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"Never let them see you sweat"
77.5 924 modified track car
79 931 Euro stock
88 924S SE
87 911 Targa stock

[924guy]

may 17-22nd or so i will be in virginia/maryland for my nieces college graduation, so i hope its before or after those dates.. I havent seen much of jenson, but its only 10 minutes away from me seems like a nice area though, from what i hear...
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Eric
78 924
82 931 SE "smokey"
99' VehiCross
Y2K Honda Insight
http://www.cardomain.com/id/924Guy
Performance by Pasha

[rOOkie]

[924guy]

i will be pulling the engine at some point, just not now.. at some point id like to pick up another complete 931 engine, rebuild it head to toe and then swap it. But for now im just concentrating on replacing the known bad items , and getting the car in good driving condition again, while i have the time to do so..otherwise itll sit another year or more, and collect dust..and thats not what a 931 is supposed to do
_________________
Eric
78 924
82 931 SE "smokey"
99' VehiCross
Y2K Honda Insight
http://www.cardomain.com/id/924Guy
Performance by Pasha