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WGI Enduro 10/16 - planning thread
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wdb  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 2024

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

its ben about 25 years since I messed with 2way radios (70's cb craze ) .but it seems to me you'll probably do alot of talking on the cell and run the bill up ,(roaming charges etc .) I would think the farthest you would be from the car would be under 1000 feet ,so even a cheap radio would work most of the time , I'm guessing the stands/buildings would be between you and the fartest part of the track , so driver would be out of touch for 20 or so seconds per lap . I would think its worth a shot to buy a $20 pair and see . if its totally useless ,you still have the cell , and ya give the radios to someones kids . or you could could look into the FRS(family radio system ) I found most of these radios run $50 - $75 a pair .and have a 2-3 mile range see red FRS for details .

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00022VABY/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_f/104-0828760-9207126

http://www.whitetails.com/radio.html

GMRS (general mobile radio service .

http://www.provide.net/~prsg/wi-gmrs.htm

http://www.provide.net/~prsg/

.
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8386
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've already used the FRS's, they're NFG, not up to the job. I have a pair of the Motorola T5200's, range was horribly limited, pretty much could only talk on the front straight, sound quality was quite bad, very difficult to understand, and I wasn't able to find a setup with a PTT remote switch for the driver to use. So one-way communications only.
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Vaughan Scott
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'79 924 #77 ITB racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8386
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I got a little more motivated to try again to make these FRS's work. Range wouldn't likely be any better (without a remote antenna), but if quality of signal could be improved, even just being able to talk while on the front straight would be better. We could possibly even set up spotters at other locations on-track.

So I've ordered what looks like it might work as a headset with PTT function. Once it comes in, we'll play with it, get Gregg to rewire if necessary, and possibly get another headset or two - they're only $15 each. Transmission quality from trackside might also be improved with a headset for the crew chief too, and he also might be able to figure out how to hack them up to use a remote antenna in the car.

We will also have an opportunity to try then out the weekend before at Waterford, see if the setup might work.
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'79 924 #77 ITB racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype
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wdb  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 2024

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you modify the antenna ,wires or connection , youll need an SWR meter . not exactly sure what it does , supposedly checks the connection , and something else ,I forget , the rumor was if you press the mic and your swr's were off you could damage the radio . there are also linears available , they boost the antenna signal incoming and out going .if youve ever heard cb transmissions coming out of your TV , someone near you had a linear , the signal was ( splashing over ) other frequencies . I think I read there was a 4 watt limit on those bands so a linear would be illegal , not to mention everyone for a few miles would hear whatever you say on every radio reciever , ( am/fm tv's , track officials etc .)a cb radio repair shop will know how to , and what can be done . from what I read there is a 20 foot ( above the structure or 60 foot above the ground )limit on antennas . you could possibly get a 96 inch " Shakespeare whip " antenna for the pits that would give you better reception from and tranmission to the car . a couple U bolts and attach it to the legg of you tarp/cover/canopy whatever you call it . there are kits to attach to a 1 inch pipe , again a cb repair shop or radio shack will have everything you need . I never would have thought I would every need any of this info again .

Yeah, breaker one-nine, this hereís the Rubber Duck, you got a copy
on me pigpen? Címon.
Ah yeah, ten-four pigpen, for sure, for sure. By golly itís clean clear to
Flagtown. Címon.
Yeah, thatís a big ten-four there pigpen. Yeah, we definitely got the
front door good buddy. Mercy sakes alive, looks like we got us a
convoy

swr meters
http://images.google.com/images?q=swr%20meter&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

SHAKESPEARE ECONOMY WHIP ANTENNA
http://www.shootnhunt.com/catalog/JM/marine_radios_accessories/shakespeare/5101222.html

http://www.westcoastmall.net/shop/default.php?cPath=21_40

http://www.westcoastmall.net/shop/product_info.php?cPath=21_40&products_id=885

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=cb+Shakespeare+whip+antenna&btnG=Search
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wdb  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 2024

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking the hand held 1 might be better and use headsets/remote mic etc . radio stays in the car , stays hooked up to power ,antenna etc , driver just plugs in his headset and GO !!! ! these prices seem a little high , but it shows there available. maybe look for better prices or design

oh a question , anybody know if running these 3-5 watt radios off the lighter plug would be ok (not damage the radio ) I've run other things with higher dc power with no trouble , it might give the extended range your looking for , simply solder the wires to the battery contacts .

http://www.csonline.net/crawford/Motocomm/motocomm%20helmet%20headsets.htm

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=frs+helmet+headset

heres some basic info on swr meters

http://homepage.eircom.net/~yellowbeard/testage.htm
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8386
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You rock, dude, that seems like exactly what we need! One of those Motocomm setups. I might even upgrade to a better FRS/GMRS radio setup with that...
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'79 924 #77 ITB racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype
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wdb  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 2024

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking again there are micro video transmitter/reciever systems available ( $300 and up ), you could have a live video stream of the data logger to the pits to monitor the car , so driver can pay attention to the race . maybe gt challege organizers could contact some of the RC hobby clubs ,to get some arial video of the race , to see how useful it might be ,if its serves a purpose ( analyze crashes etc. ) they could get thier own setup and sell videos to the teams (recoup cost ) so they can study thier/others technique/drivng style .ya know a live feed to the gt challenge website would be nice for those who cant make the race and if you get the other teams on board ,fans could watch thier favorite driver/teams live in car footage , or feed to stadium size TV for instant replays . how much money does gt challenge have , this could get interesting and FUN . heres a few links .

scroll for the text.
http://boats.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=226

http://squidink.web.aplus.net/rc-photos/
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jjadczak  



Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Posts: 346
Location: Accokeek, MD

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vaughan, I was also thinking about this a little after WDB's post this weekend. We really only need two radios per car. If all the drivers purchase one of those helmet kits with the boom mic and the ear plugs then we could put the radios in each car. If you punch the numbers and it come up pretty reasonable, we'll try to come up with the rest of the money and purchase a set of our own. But we'd like to know how they work for you first.

I also found on ebay the radio boxes and the PTT buttons. Radio boxes mount to the roll cage and the PTT buttons are velcro and of course attach to the sterring wheel. There was one supplier on Ebay that had it all: www.gtsracingproducts.com

You should also know that we have three scanners with the head sets to monitor race control. The headsets don't have mics but one just has to lean over to another crew member to relay information. If one of us is out of range and pulls off course and we can't communicate, then race control will report it in as you very well know.

Also right next to the pits is the BUD press tower which has a roof deck which is really really high which should help hearing and communicating with the drivers. The only thing bad about it that the crew cannot communicate with a spotter unless the spotter and crew has a small walkie talkie and head sets with boom mics.

Jeremy Jadczak
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8386
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, cool toys, easy way to blow some cash!

But I think I'll just deal with the FRS stuff for now, try that out. Won't have time to try the headsets out at full-tilt in time for you guys to get headsets - only racing the weekend before. We will try it out as best we can, though.

I'm still annoyed by the license thing - I have a mission to hunt down the Fastrack where they said Waterford licenses are OK, or want to see supps that will confirm it for the enduro...
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Vaughan Scott
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'79 924 #77 ITB racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8386
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:16 pm    Post subject: License answer Reply with quote

OK, I tracked it down - knew it was old news. March 04 Fastrack:
http://www.scca.org/_Filelibrary/File/04-03-fastrack.pdf

Page F-45, Tech Bulletin

Effective 1/1/04, approved by the BOD in December: Change GCR Section 3.1.2.C, p.8, first note to read as follows:
Note: the current organizations that have their licenses approved by SCCA for competition in Regional events are:
etc etc... Waterford Hills Road Racing Club (Full)

No worries. I'll just have to dig up my hardcopy of that to carry with, JIC...
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'79 924 #77 ITB racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype
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ryoji  



Joined: 10 Oct 2003
Posts: 168
Location: NNJ

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought if I buy one and never did.

As a starter racing communication equipment from the Sampson Communication, they use Midland GXT400VP1, 4W 10 mile range equipment. This radio is one of cheap set selling a lot of elec. shop. The following is the link at the Sampson and Amazon!

http://www.sampsonracing.com/sampson_racing_new/rr_systems.htm
http://www.sampsonracing.com/sampson_racing_new/radios.htm

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00029U0WC/qid=1094435203/sr=1-21/ref=sr_1_21/103-7352767-3024641?v=glance&s=electronics

With bat. charger, it is $100 for 2 with cheap earphone and mic at most elec. outlets.

I wonder if this cheap earphone and mic works under race condition?

When I add all Sampson's equipments other than radios, like thier noise cancellation mic, foam earphone, ptt button, holder, pit crew earphone etc. etc. The price comes upto over $450; however, they sell complete system without radio at $349. At the ebay, their starter equipment can be bought at $460 including these radios and charger. So again, I wonder if I actually think real values are their extra equipments, not the radios? For the radios, even this top race radio seller uses rather cheap equipment for a starter.

Jermey, we don't need 2 radios per car. we need 3 radios; two for each car and one for pit. Use the same frequency.
When we used 2W 5 mile range family radios last time, they worked only at the front straight and T3 to T4 (hardly understood) and Padock (clear and loud) at the tower.

4W 10 miles one may be different. Since you and I run togather lots of event, we may work out together on the radios and crew set, and let Vaughan and Jeson to consider their mic and ear plugs on their helmets.

Jermey, call or e-mail me, when you can.
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ryoji  



Joined: 10 Oct 2003
Posts: 168
Location: NNJ

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sorry, double post.
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Last edited by ryoji on Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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wdb  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 2024

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

924RACR wrote:
Won't have time to try the headsets out at full-tilt .
I would think having someone standing in the local park while you drive around in your turbo would similate the conditions at a race track reasonably enough , trees, fences etc. should give you an idea of the range, quality of transmissions etc . oh and i believe most of the accesories antennas , cables , connectors , SWR meters etc . are standard CB radio stuff , ebay should have whatever you need . just so you know , 10-20 ft of the correct coaxial cable and you can connect any antenna to the radio .standardized fittings . and theres the option of someone on the high ground relaying info, maybe even a high back bar stool with a 10 foot antenna mounted to the back to use at the press stand if need be .or you could use a rotating(directional antenna) and make the RV the comm. center see moonraker antennas .

http://www.palcoelectronics.com/p1000434.htm

http://www.signalengineering.com/ultimate/hybrid.html

swr meters
http://search.ebay.com/cb-radio-swr_W0QQsofocusZbsQQsbrftogZ1QQfromZR10QQsotrZ2QQcoactionZcompareQQcopagenumZ1QQcoentrypageZsearch

this antenna matches your color scheme
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48692&item=5718067697&rd=1

more antennas
http://search.ebay.com/cb-radio-antenna_W0QQsofocusZbsQQsbrftogZ1QQfromZR10QQsotrZ2QQcoactionZcompareQQcopagenumZ1QQcoentrypageZsearch

radios
http://search.ebay.com/frs-radio_W0QQsofocusZbsQQsbrftogZ1QQfromZR10QQsotrZ2QQcoactionZcompareQQcopagenumZ1QQcoentrypageZsearch
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wdb  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 2024

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh about the range problems . it might be that having the antenna inside the car is blocking the signal , radio waves cant pass through metal (body of car) so you could be getting blind spots where the sheet metal is between the driver and crew ,a 4 ft antenna on the roof of the car and the crew having a 10 ft antenna mounted on the canopy should do the trick . its a line of site thing .you could even get a 10 foot lightweight aluminum pole ,mount pole to canopy, antenna to pole , that would put the base(crew area) antenna 27 feet above the crowd , rv's etc. and the communication would be clear . so lng as its not a windy day ,or youll need to anchor/add wieght to the legg with the antenna .
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ryoji  



Joined: 10 Oct 2003
Posts: 168
Location: NNJ

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and I found this for the Midland radios

Accesory Speaker Microphone for Motorcycle Helmet - $$49
- Includes two speakers that attach inside the helmet.
- Boom microphone to go inside helmet.
- PTT button that wraps on handle bar.
- Extra long cable
- Works with GXT-250,300,400,450.
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