924Board.org

[1980-924]

I can get the 1980 NA to run using starting fluid, but no fuel thru the injectors.
No fuel thru the filter and I get no vibration/noise from either the in-tank fuel pump or the external fuel pump.
I have a question about the Fuel Pump relay as the multimeter shows 0 volts when key is on and then shows 10.5 volts when the car is cranking - is that correct?

I did search on the replacement Pierburg External Fuel Pump and I like that you can eliminate the Internal pump when using the Pierburg.
Can you eliminate the Internal Fuel Pump with the Walbro GCL604-1 too?

I read a post where dpw928 used a 928 strainer (# 928 201 081 03) and that it was a direct fit to replace the Internal Fuel Pump. Can anyone verify this to be true?
See --> http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=8565&highlight=928+201+081

Where to get the Pierburg? Has anyone bought one recently? Most of the posts I could find were from 2002-2007.
Looks like Autohausaz, Zims, Shokan, SAP USA no longer have it available?
www.944racing.com is no longer there....

Also, I plan to flush out the gas tank - what is recommended to use for the flush?
Having gas pour out of the hole at the bottom of the tank doesn't sound optimal.
Can you use a pressure washer with water?

Thanks in advance!!!
_________________
1980 924 NA 5 Speed

[larchie]

I'm struggling with a similar issue. Both my fuels pumps failed. The in-line external pump has failed often when the car wassn't driven on a regular basis.

Your voltage should drop no more than a couple of tenths of a volt. In my case attaching the voltmeter from the battery to the positive terminal of a frozen pump yielded 10.4 volts, whereas it was 11.8 volts when replaced with a good pump.
(The failed pump was fixed in a shorted position) -- I hope to supply pictures on another thread of both failed pumps.

The 928 201 081 04 strainer (not a 928 201 081 03 which I think is no longer available) fit perfectly in the tank of my '79 (and is also used in the 1978-88 928s); however, now my 924 NA 5S runs flat at higher RPMs with very poor acceleration. Since both the '79 and '80 924s use the same in-tank pump, I would think the 928 201 081 04 would fit your '80 also.

I couldn't find a Pierburg pump either, and the even the less desirable Airtech pump is no longer made. And the recommended Bosch 928 608 013 00 in-tank pump would not fit in my '79 924 as noted in an earlier post on this forum. I am presently using the strainer mentioned above and am working on rebuilding the old in-tank pump. (I could find only two sources for the 12mm submersible fuel hose in the in-tank pump-- Earles and AnPluming).

I hope to post soon on another thread (with supporting links) to the effects of ethanol on the fuel system -- especially for cars not driven on a regular basis.

As for the tank, I removed it without dropping the transaxle without difficulty and I'm no mechanic. I had it steam-cleaned and coated for under $100 and it wasn't difficult to replace as I had made good diagrams of where all parts went when it was taken out.

[larchie]

In the post above, I misspoke -- the fuel tank was acid-cleaned not steam-cleaned.

I think older cars are especially susceptible to rusting tanks caused by ethanol in blended fuels, but I haven't found published scientific papers on blended fuels currently used in the US. According to a "tech summary" entitled "The Ethanol Issue" ethanol in fuel absorbs many times more or water than standard fuel which causes phase separation. About four teaspoons of water will cause phase separation in 10 gallons of an ethanol blend which leads to corrosion and rust. Fuel stabilizers are recommended. This is consistent with my experience of going through four fuel pumps in last twenty years of driving a 924 intermittently.

I've enclosed images below of a cut-open Bosch in-line fuel pump (PN 911 608 0-2 00) which was installed new in a 1979 924 NS and not started for several months. The pump froze. Oxidation of the surfaces is fairly evident from these images, and I was surprised by two things: (1) that the pump froze with such a small amount of oxidation and (2) how precisely the Bosch pump is manufactured.


Disassembled Bosch 911 608 102 00 Side View


Disassembled Bosch 911 608 102 00 End View

[1980-924]

Hi larchie,
I found a source for the Pierburg, PM if you like and I can send you the info.
I really don't want to drop the fuel tank - just too much work.
I am having success with using a pressure washer in the tank thru the fuel level hole in the top.
I appear to be in luck in that the pressure washer has blasted away the 'varnish' from the old fuel leaving a clean metal surface - but only where the wand reaches.
I am looking at a different wand and planning to make a metal tube for the wand that I can bend to get to the rest of the tank and to blast off the inside of the top of the tank too.

I was hoping to hear that the Walbro External fuel pump would work well without the in tank fuel pump as that one is easier to find.
You're using the Bosch External fuel pump (PN 911 608 0-2 00) and experiencing fuel starvation at high RPMs?
_________________
1980 924 NA 5 Speed

[1980-924]

Hi larchie,
Have you tried here:

$83.42 - Part Number: 69420 Bosch In Tank Fuel Pump at:
http://www.autopartsexpress.com/searchitem.epc?lookfor=69420

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.partstrain.com/store/?Ntt=fuel+pump

For $119.98 they are showing:

Brand: Bosch
Location: In-Tank
Condition: New
Operation: Electric
Product Fit: Direct fit
Quantity Sold: Sold individually
Fuel Sending Unit Included: No

FUEL PUMP, NEW -- Electric; Includes illustrated step-by-step instructions for safe and easy installation; Uses premium carbon brushes.....
view more

PART#: BS69420 MFR#: 69420

Right after that they have the Check Valve for $20.95:

Bosch Fuel Pump Check Valve
For 1980 Porsche 924 Base 4 Cyl 2.0L
Features
Brand: Bosch
Quantity Sold: Sold individually
Anticipated Ship Out Time: 1-2 business days

Bosch is one of the largest global suppliers of automotive products, developing, manufacturing and supplying precision OE components an.....
view more

PART#: W0133-1627769
MFR#: W0133-1627769
-----------------------------------------------------------------
And 1977-1982 Porsche 924 Electric Fuel Pump - In-Tank - Bosch 69420 for $92.35 at:

PartsGeek have asked us to remove links to their site (it's a Google thing). Copy and paste this address into your browser:

partsgeek.com/ss/?i=1&ssq=69420&x=12&y=12

This listing also shows all the Audi models that use the same In Tank Fuel pump too.

1977-1980 Porsche 924 Fuel Pump Check Valve - Bosch W0133-1627769 for $21.98:

PartsGeek have asked us to remove links to their site (it's a Google thing). Copy and paste this address into your browser:

partsgeek.com/ss/?i=1&ssq=W0133-1627769&x=19&y=11

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In Tank Pump $129.66 with free shipping -
http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/search/?Ntt=Bosch+69420&searchType=global&N=0

Check Valve $20.95 -
http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/search/?Ntt=W0133-1627769+&searchType=global&N=0

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Other possible sources here:
http://frugalmechanic.com/auto-part/bosch-69420-fuel-pump
_________________
1980 924 NA 5 Speed

[1980-924]

Just pulled them off of the car and they are both frozen-



There was no 'Check Valve' between the External Pump and the Fuel Accumulator.
Additional search says the Walbro can run the 924 sucessfully without the In Tank Fuel Pump - I think I'm going to get the Walbro and put it back together.
_________________
1980 924 NA 5 Speed

[vatoisimo]

I am very interested to hear how this works, as I am going to be tackling the fuel system soon

[larchie]

1980-924, thanks for the information on fuel pumps and the extensive links -- you have located some great prices, but I don't think the in-tank fuel pumps found fit the 1979-1982 924 or 924 Turbo even with substantial modification. The Bosch part number for the 924 in-tank fuel pump from the Technical and Reference Parts Catalog, is PN 928 608 013 00 and is not Bosch PN 0 580 254 979 as stated on the otherwise very useful 924 Garage Parts Listing. So I think Parts Geek and AutoParts Warehouse are mistaken.

I could not find a specific Bosch part number for the Porsche 924 (and 928) in-tank pump in a quick search. See 360 degree rotation of the PN 69420 on the Bosch Part Finder here for the fittings differences from the in-tank fuel pump on your 924 and the same in my '79 924 in the images below. Surprisingly, if you enter the information for your 1980 NA 924 in the Bosch Parts Finder, this part is listed for the in-tank pump. But that is simply a mistake -- as will be noted by the 1983 engine automatically supplied for your 1980 924. Maybe, this Parts Finder is the reason so many auto parts places have mistaken entries. If I am mistaken about any of this, as I sometimes am, please, someone, enlighten me!

Interestingly, locally, NAPA, Advance, and several others had mistaken entries listed for the in-tank pump when I looked locally (only O'Reilly had correct information) even though in all cases the Porsche part number was cross-listed. The external in-line pump for 1979-1982 924 and 924 Turbo is PN 928 608 013 00. (This pump is the replacement for original in-tank pumps manufactured originally which had a different number.)

Also congrats on your success so far on cleaning the tank so far.

The current Bosch in-tank fuel pumps that I tried recently did not fit into the fuel tank, so I'm going to try rebuilding the old one as suggested by kcoyle. The reason I couldn't get the pump to fit is guessed on this thread... 924 In-Tank Fuel Pump ... where peterid ran into the same difficulties but he explains in that same thread that he was able to press the pump in place in his 924 with sanding and a "press fit."

But someone posted recently on this forum that he replaced both 924 pumps -- so presumably not everyone is having this problem. (Sorry but I can't find the post now to provide a link.)

Your in-tank pump looks almost exactly like one I replaced about 10 years ago -- my brother, who just retired from his shop in NM after many years of building and fixing race cars, and building and driving various modified Porsches, attributed the rust to my daily driving short distances to work most often with the tank low in fuel.

Yes, I think I am experiencing what I take to be fuel starvation at high RPMs, but I cannot say that you would have the same problem. I've read other 924 owners say that they haven't experienced a noticeable loss in power, as I'm sure you have read also.

Another difference between my 924 and yours is that my brother did a number of mods over the years such as adding a big-throat throttle body, dial-in cam, and so forth. I haven't checked fuel delivery to the injectors yet so as to compare past fuel volumes -- nor have I tuned the car recently.

I think I can fix the old in-tank pump; if anyone else is trying this fix, the following images might be helpful. (Click on the thumbnail images for a larger view.) This image suggests where most of these pumps seem to fail:



The pump itself can be disassembled by carefully prying open the pressed end of the cylinder near the filter -- in case wiring or the brushes need replacing also:



The order of assembly looks mostly like this:



If anyone else has a problem replacing the newly Bosch "Genuine Porsche" in-line fuel pumps because its outer diameter is too large, it might be important to research "submersible fuel lines." Most submersible fuel line ends (including Gates and NAPA) are not fully submersible -- only the inside and outside are submersible. As noted above I could only find fully submersible fuel hose at two places.

Note, for example, where the ends of Gates submersible lines are in this image from their brochure or the image on the second page of this NAPA brochure.

Here in this online advertisement Gates explicitly states the warning that their Submersible Fuel Line Hose should not be submerged in gasoline!

[Rasta Monsta]

Go, new guys! Great info!
_________________
Toofah King Bad

• WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3

[larchie]

I couldn't get these images in a PM, but I think the center fitting below as cropped from the image posted above is a "newer" check valve introduced in this Porsche Technical Bulletin from December 3, 1980 (scroll down to page 2 of this Bulletin for more information):

This check valve described there compares well to the check valve cropped from the image in the post above and this thumbnail image from Autohaus:

. . .

Full size image is here for the 924 check valve from Autohaus. Does the end of the fitting from your pump look like the enlarged image in the Autohaus full-size image link?

[1980-924]

I see how they look alike in the pictures, but what I have is hollow in the middle, there is no 'valve' inside.
If I get a chance, I'll take a picture with a nail or small screwdriver thru the middle of it.

The parts are in - In Tank Fuel Filer/ Strainer - 92820108104:


The Walbro Standard Fuel Pump Kit (GCL604-1):




Even with the neoprene sleeve on the Walbro it is still thinner than the original Bosch pump.

It if doesn't rain all day tomorrow I'll start to put this back together.
_________________
1980 924 NA 5 Speed

[Tigger937]

Did Porsche 928 201 081 04, Fuel Pump Strainer fit your 924?
_________________
1981 931 (Concours)
1982 931 (Daily Driver)

"Think outside the box"

[chuck21401]

[Tigger937]