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Oil pressure while cranking

 
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After_Thought  



Joined: 08 Oct 2019
Posts: 44
Location: Hudson ohio

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:18 am    Post subject: Oil pressure while cranking Reply with quote

Fresh engine installed. Went to crank it today to look for oil pressure. after about 15-20 seconds nothing. How long should it take? So scared to crank it more. Is there anything signs i should be looking for if something is wrong?
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Raize  



Joined: 18 Sep 2013
Posts: 143
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't build any pressure cranking. Needs to run. Scary stuff.
Been there, done that, still have all my cam lobes.
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MikeJinCO  



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 1014
Location: Maysville, Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it is a fresh, never started build it is not unusual. The oil pump is a long way from the oil and needs primed. I know of two ways to get the pump primed. One, remove the plug that holds the oil pressure relief spring, it is low on the side(I think passenger) and stuff he hole full with fresh vaseline. It takes more than you think as the pump pretty much has to get filled. Put the spring and plug back in, remove the plugs and crank until you get oil pressure which may well take a bit. If a second person is handy remove the oil fill cap on the valve cover to make sure the cam is getting lubricated while cranking. Two, remove the plug and oil pressure spring, take a wet and dry shop vac and fit it to the hole. You are almost guaranteed an oil bath. Close it up and repeat as before.

I one took my bath, I've gone to the vaseline method it is slower for results, but a bit cleaner.
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After_Thought  



Joined: 08 Oct 2019
Posts: 44
Location: Hudson ohio

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you so much! Ill try the shop vac method tomorrow. Hopefully it all goes well! I feel a lot better about this
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8422
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It can indeed take quite a while to prime - but it will.

Use a battery booster, and crank as needed, but give the starter time to cool between tries. That said, short bursts of cranking won't do it - I often need to run 30s or more, but so be it.
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8338
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope you properly oiled up all turning parts before assembly.
I also used some assembly grease to "prime and seal" the oil pump on my cayman when i did the engine rebuild and it still took a few seconds of actually running the engine to draw oil, fill the engine and pressure everything.
Thats why discipline and clean work environment is so important.
Heard of a guy who didnt properly oil up the bearings on an engine and ended up doing damage to the bearings.
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Mike9311  



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1102
Location: Chicago-ish

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+3 on all that advice

On pumps like these I too use vaseline. I take the pump apart and pack it up. Same with the 1980's Buick Grand National pump. Of course in a hot summer a lot of the vaseline turns to liquid but its still there. I also use ATF on the pistons and rings. Probably old school. Any engine assembly lube everywhere else.
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TJC  



Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 809
Location: Central-ish Arizona, USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a specific procedure on fresh engines whether they be for the street or race use. Obviously a proper application of assembly lubes must be applied to specific areas such as the bearings, cam lobes, cylinder walls, valve stems/guides, etc. and I use different lubricants for different items. The oil pump must be primed/heavily lubricated so that there is sufficient "petroleum" contact on all metal surfaces to create "suction" when the oil pump is turning. This point cannot be stressed enough otherwise the pump will cavitate. I always prefill the oil filters.
Now one of the most important procedures is that I pre-oil the entire lubrication system by using a conventional pump action "bug/weed/garden" sprayer converted with the proper adaptor per the specific application that screws into an oil galley, (most commonly where the oil pressure sender installs into), and pump at least 3-4 quarts of oil into the engine.
This assures that the complete engine lubrication system ready to go at start up. Other points to follow are that the ignition timing must be set properly in it's static position and that the fuel delivery system is primed and ready to go as well.
Good Luck!
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After_Thought  



Joined: 08 Oct 2019
Posts: 44
Location: Hudson ohio

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright so i ended up packing the relief spring port with a tone of Vaseline and cranked it for a total of about a minute, maybe 1:30. Still nothing. Assembly lube on the cam. I was just looking through oil filler cap to see if cam was getting oiled while family member turned key, didn't see anything. Having this cap off or even the head cover off wouldn't mess with oil pressure would it? (idk of its some weird pressure thing or something).

Wishing cranking the engine was not so scary.

I guess Ill try the shop vac method next? not sure how ill fit it to that hole but Ill give it my best shot.
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After_Thought  



Joined: 08 Oct 2019
Posts: 44
Location: Hudson ohio

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright so i ended up packing the relief spring port with a tone of Vaseline and cranked it for a total of about a minute, maybe 1:30. Still nothing. Assembly lube on the cam. I was just looking through oil filler cap to see if cam was getting oiled while family member turned key, didn't see anything. Having this cap off or even the head cover off wouldn't mess with oil pressure would it? (idk of its some weird pressure thing or something).

Wishing cranking the engine was not so scary.

I guess Ill try the shop vac method next? not sure how ill fit it to that hole but Ill give it my best shot.

Maybe I should also try that sprayer that TJC was talking about through the spot where oil pressure sender goes.
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After_Thought  



Joined: 08 Oct 2019
Posts: 44
Location: Hudson ohio

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found this at summit racing (live right next to one). I wonder if it would be a good to have. This would help to get oil pressure right?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all10535

(sorry for all the questions, first time doing any of this)
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MikeJinCO  



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 1014
Location: Maysville, Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds sort of normal to me, it can get pretty spooky. I've only rebuilt two motors and the startup was quite stressful both times. You just have to keep working at it, I think last time I had to pack the oil pump twice. You may need to crank it 3 or 4 times as long.

TJ's' solution is the ideal one, but the location of the oil pressure sender makes it difficult to work with, getting a remote filter adapter which is not expensive might work. The remote filter adapter is a 3/4-16 oil filter thread and screws on in place of the oil filter, and has 1/2 NPT pipe threads for supply and return. Pump oil into the return and it prelubes the entire motor, into the supply backfeeds the oil pump..


.
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Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11556
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're Over_Thinking it. It has enough assembly lube to run for a bit, dead cold, without oil pressure...that's what it's for.

Fire it up!
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 2194
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cranked mine for effing ages and no pressure. Thought F it after a lot of head scratching, checks, back filling oil in the pump etc. so just started it. Soon got pressure. Still alive after 7+yrs of abuse. Super stressful though.....
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TJC  



Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 809
Location: Central-ish Arizona, USA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you were building engines for a living the Summit unit would be fine...but I still wouldn't buy it. Any Home Depot, Lowes, Harbor Freight, etc. will have a hand pump weed sprayer that may cost you $10-15 and when you're done with it you can clean it out and use it for other purposes or throw it away...there, done! You can buy various brass fittings and hose clamps to make a suitable adaptor to fit a port in your engine and the sprayer.
Or you can take your chances and just start the sucker up and hope for the best...works for others apparently, may work for you, but it wouldn't be my first choice. Just sayin'...everyone has their own techniques, procedures, beliefs or even reputation to consider if they build/built engines for a living.
Good Luck & Have Fun, because in the end, that's what it's all about!
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'81 Porsche 924 Turbo...Parting!
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Still on the Prowl!

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