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DZGunner
Joined: 18 Nov 2014 Posts: 191 Location: Great white north
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Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:57 pm Post subject: Intake Manifold |
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I'll try to be as brief as possible.
I have a 1979 924 NA North American model.
-Will a Carrera GT Intake fit this car.
Also I understand there is an S1 and S2 intake setup on these cars.
-What are the year ranges that had these intakes
-If they are similar, then by just looking at one of each setup, what
differences can be seen or how can i visually tell them apart?
Thanks in advance guys _________________ 1979 924 (Daily driver EFI)
1979 924 Sebring
1977 924
1977 924 (Parts) |
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Fasteddie313
Joined: 29 Sep 2013 Posts: 2596 Location: MI
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Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:16 am Post subject: |
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I think the turbo head bolts up differently than an NA head, to the intake manifold.. _________________ 80 Turbo - Slightly Modified |
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DZGunner
Joined: 18 Nov 2014 Posts: 191 Location: Great white north
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Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:15 am Post subject: |
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Are you referring to S1 and S2 intakes? or the GTS compatibility, or both? _________________ 1979 924 (Daily driver EFI)
1979 924 Sebring
1977 924
1977 924 (Parts) |
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peterld
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 947 Location: Noosa Heads QLD Australia
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Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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The Carrera GT intake manifold is similar to the S2 Turbo, ie. round port inlet, from year '81 onwards.
The S1 intake ('79-'80) bolts to the head identically, but has an oval port intake. The throttle bodies are consequently different. _________________ 80/81 932/8 ROW |
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morghen
Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 8884 Location: Romania
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Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Intake Manifold |
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DZGunner wrote: | I'll try to be as brief as possible.
I have a 1979 924 NA North American model.
-Will a Carrera GT Intake fit this car.
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No and there is no reason to have a turbocharged manifold on a NA car.
Intake boots wont fit, accelerator cable wont fit, no vacuum port for your ignition advance, intake ports are much smaller on the NA and that causes massive turbulence when paired with a larger diameter size ports of the intake.
Also the GT manifold has more signal ports that serve the turbo system..there is nothing to fit in those ports on the NA car. _________________ https://www.the924.com |
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DZGunner
Joined: 18 Nov 2014 Posts: 191 Location: Great white north
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Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks guys. So I guess to get a little more specific of why I ask...
I recently ordered the VEMS EFI kit from "Raceboy" (I believe is what he's called on here) and I'm looking for a way to get a throttle body with a TPS mount already integrated on it. Now if I had a circular port for the throttle body i could have just about any throttle body with TPS mount I want, however I'm stuck with the oval throttle for now.
So timing advance, intake boots, and throttle cables aside, would it actually mount to the NA head. The ports being different sizes could be a real problem, but I'm just wondering if it would bolt straight up, or lets even say an S2 manifold. The goal here being to fit a throttle body with TPS mount.
If not these, then I'm really not sure what kind of janky modifications to the oval throttle I'm going to have to do. lol _________________ 1979 924 (Daily driver EFI)
1979 924 Sebring
1977 924
1977 924 (Parts) |
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DZGunner
Joined: 18 Nov 2014 Posts: 191 Location: Great white north
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Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Also I'd like to note that I do realize how ridiculous that would be to have a GTS intake on an NA car, I'm just looking at every single possible option. _________________ 1979 924 (Daily driver EFI)
1979 924 Sebring
1977 924
1977 924 (Parts) |
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peterld
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 947 Location: Noosa Heads QLD Australia
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Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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Port match an S2 Turbo manifold to your NA head and you'll be good to go with a round port opening inlet manifold. _________________ 80/81 932/8 ROW |
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Raize
Joined: 18 Sep 2013 Posts: 186 Location: Scotland
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Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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A lot of 80s VW and Audi throttle bodies bolt right up and some may have TPS although from my research the TPS is a very expensive replacement part and usually broken. |
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morghen
Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 8884 Location: Romania
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Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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The Na head flows poorly and the effort to adapt a turbo or gts intake would be in vain.
If i were you i’d just work on bolting up a different TB on the NA intake and be done with it.
I’m sure that an adapter plate is cheaper and easier to make than to swap over a more expensive manifold and work to mitigate the differences.
I heard some Subaru TBs are bolt on and they have the right tps for the vems. _________________ https://www.the924.com |
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MikeJinCO
Joined: 08 Jun 2010 Posts: 1228 Location: Maysville, Colorado
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Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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The bolt pattern is different between the NA and 931 heads. The bottom bolts are the same, but the top ones spread higher and toward the back. I managed to make a Weber carb manifold fit the 931 head but it is much simpler than any turbo manifold. The ports match up pretty well, although the 931 ports are bit larger and required some grinding on the manifold to match. _________________ Mike
'67 MG Midget Dp
'71 Ocelot Dsr Kawasaki 1000(under rebuild) |
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DZGunner
Joined: 18 Nov 2014 Posts: 191 Location: Great white north
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Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:13 am Post subject: |
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How about... what if I found a 931 head with s2 intake already on it, it would match the block im sure, but would the exhaust manifold have the same pattern? Would valve clearance be ok? and would it run alright without a turbo?
I had been looking at how I could make an adapter plate long before I came to the board to consult you guys, and the main problem is space, which is why I'm looking into all these other possible solutions.
Also I think I found the Subaru TB someone had mentioned, but not only was it used on the s2 intake, but it was on a turbo model that may or may not have had the s1 intake on it before. It doesnt really say that, but it's sort of implied the way he brings up that it was used and that the year of the car may have been 1980. I'm not really digging all this "may have" and "could be"
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-924-944-968-technical-forum/1032819-porsche-924-racecar-build-thread-aan-conversion.html _________________ 1979 924 (Daily driver EFI)
1979 924 Sebring
1977 924
1977 924 (Parts) |
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MikeJinCO
Joined: 08 Jun 2010 Posts: 1228 Location: Maysville, Colorado
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Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:21 am Post subject: |
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No, the NA exhaust manifold will not bolt up to a 931 head, again the bolt spacing is larger. Also due to the combustion chamber in the head you would loose the compression ratio back to probably 6, new pistons would be needed. Some years ago there was a Weber throttle body but I can't find any more than that. It Probably came from Redline Weber in the US. I'd ask Raceboy what to do. _________________ Mike
'67 MG Midget Dp
'71 Ocelot Dsr Kawasaki 1000(under rebuild) |
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morghen
Joined: 21 Jan 2005 Posts: 8884 Location: Romania
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Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:41 am Post subject: |
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S2 head + NA pistons = nothing...you cant use the turbo head unless you also change the pistons. Also the exhaust manifold wont fit anymore.
Just get an adapter plate made for the TB you want to use on your NA manifold. _________________ https://www.the924.com |
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DZGunner
Joined: 18 Nov 2014 Posts: 191 Location: Great white north
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Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:54 am Post subject: |
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He's been busy lately, I shot him a message a while ago but haven't heard anything yet, so I'm brainstorming solutions if he doesn't have one for me. Looks like I'm gonna have to start making a plate.
I did manage to dig this modification up from a guy who SC his 924. I'm not entirely sure if he just removed the bottom spring, if that spring was needed, or what he did to make this work... Scroll about 2/3 down the page and you'll see it.
http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=33291&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=195 _________________ 1979 924 (Daily driver EFI)
1979 924 Sebring
1977 924
1977 924 (Parts) |
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