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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Central-ish Arizona, USA
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 Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:59 am Post subject: Martini... |
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The question...
When does it become viable to undertake a complete restoration on a "Limited Edition" 924 knowing damn well that the "investment" may/will never equal the effort aside from the emotional aspect?
I have come across another 924 that needs a lot of help and judging from the photos and correspondence with the owner the only thing it may have going for it is that it is a mostly rust free southwestern car. It needs absolutely everything!!!
Like the two 931's I found late last year, one of which may have been picked up and looks like someone is trying to save, I find myself questioning how much I personally want to take on at this stage when I find myself enjoying other things I didn't have time for when I was working.
My pragmatic side based on my professional experience says I should pass on this car too and allow someone else the opportunity to enjoy the frustration of restoring her  ! But then my passionate side says there aren't many of these cars around and when do you think you'll find another this cheap??? Perhaps my decision will be made for me when Thomas from werk924 comes back with some figures for me this week  !
If anyone is interested in this car and is looking for a project let me know as that may also make my decision easier  ! I know the owner has expressed interest in needing to sell it soon so...
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'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
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morghen
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8879
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:07 am Post subject: |
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I was in that place last year. I had found a 924 that needed...well everything.
Its not worth it if you have no knowledge and no source for parts..or parts already in your garage.
But i thought that if i dont fix this 924, nobody else will.
So...a martini...you can save it, most people out there cant.
They are special cars, look dandy and are appreciating quite a bit lately.
If you have no other projects going on, get it and get it in the shape you want it to be. I'm very happy i bought my 924 last year. In the end its all about what makes you happy...if owning, fixing or driving a 924 makes you happy...screw money and market value.
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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Central-ish Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| morghen wrote: | I was in that place last year. I had found a 924 that needed...well everything.
Its not worth it if you have no knowledge and no source for parts..or parts already in your garage.
But i thought that if i dont fix this 924, nobody else will.
So...a martini...you can save it, most people out there cant.
They are special cars, look dandy and are appreciating quite a bit lately.
If you have no other projects going on, get it and get it in the shape you want it to be. I'm very happy i bought my 924 last year. In the end its all about what makes you happy...if owning, fixing or driving a 924 makes you happy...screw money and market value. |
Your words are spot on and I know that if I get it I will make it a long term project as fortunately I have enough room to have 2 or 3 going if I had to. It may be wise just to get it to have it available even if I don't do anything with it right away as I am making modifications to my 944 presently and have yet another "long term project" noodling around in that empty space above my eyes  !
Now a thought just occurred to me...possibly a "Dad-Daughter" project for when she spends time here away from her studies!!! Seeing as she has it in her blood, (went to her first race at 3 weeks old), and loves driving...hmmmm  .
_________________
'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
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scm924s
Joined: 22 Oct 2010
Posts: 262
Location: Gloucester UK
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| Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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The only thing "special" in the Martini edition is the interior, everything else is standard 924 so is easy to source. If you are considering it as a restoration then you need to evaluate the cost of the interior if it needs replacing and the graphics, these are all available in Germany, at a price, so it can be brought back to original spec.
At the end of the day, do you want to save and restore a rare 924 at any cost? Most restorers of old/classic cars always say they will never recoup the cost of all the work it entails, it's just personal satisfaction.
good luck.
_________________
1984 n/a Ruby Red Metallic
1988 924S Guards red- sold
1986 924S Guards Red - sold
1984 n/a Black - sold
1980 n/a Le Mans#1 - sold
1980 n/a Le Mans#2- sold
1977 Martini - sold |
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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Central-ish Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:13 am Post subject: |
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| scm924s wrote: | The only thing "special" in the Martini edition is the interior, everything else is standard 924 so is easy to source. If you are considering it as a restoration then you need to evaluate the cost of the interior if it needs replacing and the graphics, these are all available in Germany, at a price, so it can be brought back to original spec.
At the end of the day, do you want to save and restore a rare 924 at any cost? Most restorers of old/classic cars always say they will never recoup the cost of all the work it entails, it's just personal satisfaction.
good luck. |
Yes I have already been in touch with Thomas at werk924 and with any luck I will hear back from him shortly. When he contacted me this past Friday he said he was working on some carpet details and then would be in touch. Again costs will be a determining factor here.
One issue is that some of these cars are still on the market with a bit of regularity here in the States and actually can be had for quite a reasonable price in much better and running condition than the car I'm referencing.
The matter then surely becomes one of "saving this poor waif" and committing to a fairly long term project, (for me in any respect as I have many other things on my plate now), basically for the sake of posterity. That in itself will render any decision to pursue restoration an emotional one and not for investment. Having been in the business of restoring cars I am fully aware, perhaps too fully aware, that the costs far outweigh the value in most instances and that would surely be the case with this car. My basic research thus far on Martini's selling in the US puts them in a price range of $500.00 for a car such as the one I'm looking at to perhaps $7K on the high side for a very clean running car with some history. I suspect that parts, tires and supplies alone, depending on what Thomas comes up with, will cost in the range of $5K minimum. Add perhaps another $1K for sublet labor such as any engine machining or powdercoating that may need to be done and one is already getting close to what one could buy an extremely nice example for without including any labor...which of course would be the love poured into this poor little beast.
This is an aspect of restoration that some folks don't always fully realize because in many respects they are blinded by love and can only see the end result in their minds and not the road it takes to get there! I used to tell my clients that concerning budgeting, "take an amount that you intend to spend and then at least double or triple it. Consider the time you think it's going to take to complete the restoration and then do the same. Then sleep on it, and if you're good with that and my other terms we can do business". I must take the same approach with myself as I'm sure that any of you who have undertaken a major restoration will probably agree with my premise !
Anyway I've gone on much more than I planned to but maybe it's good to remind myself of the task ahead...and maybe some others will read this and be better prepared when they choose to undertake a "labor of love"  !
_________________
'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
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morghen
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8879
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:35 am Post subject: |
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I poured 5k into my run of the mill 924 already and i havent bought any seats or carpets for it...just a new dash.
Now i want a martini 
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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Central-ish Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| morghen wrote: | I poured 5k into my run of the mill 924 already and i havent bought any seats or carpets for it...just a new dash.
Now i want a martini |
UH-OH!!!
So my friend, if I decide to pass on this one shall I contact you first? Yes I realize it's a "second class" NA version and shipping would be a hassle but...
Let me know !
_________________
'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
www.ttrs1.com |
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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Central-ish Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:07 am Post subject: |
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I'm also curious as to whether there is a registry for the Martini cars early and later ones. I recently joined two FB groups that are dedicated to these cars. Both are based in Europe.
I would like to check out the VIN further as I haven't seen much on it yet.
_________________
'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
www.ttrs1.com |
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morghen
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8879
Location: Romania
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| Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:28 am Post subject: |
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There is a martini in Italy i've been thinking about, i'd want an European one.
But first i need to finish the one i'm working on...and give up on one of the modern cars.
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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Central-ish Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| morghen wrote: | There is a martini in Italy i've been thinking about, i'd want an European one.
But first i need to finish the one i'm working on...and give up on one of the modern cars. |
I understand about wanting the European one as that would be my first choice too. The early cars, especially without the rear spoiler, look so much cleaner and pure without the US crap added to them, the essence of Lagaay's original design really shines. I'd be very tempted to "Europeanize" this car if I proceed.
Andrea from werk924 came back to me today with one quote and they are preparing another for some other things so...
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'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
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jacobroufa
Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 529
Location: Belvidere, IL
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:01 am Post subject: |
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| morghen wrote: | | If you have no other projects going on, get it and get it in the shape you want it to be. I'm very happy i bought my 924 last year. In the end its all about what makes you happy...if owning, fixing or driving a 924 makes you happy...screw money and market value. |
Love this. This seems to be the best mentality to take into any car scene, or any other hobby in life really. I am happy when I am driving my 924. It provides me satisfaction (but not without some fights) in working on it. It ticks all the boxes that *matter*.
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scm924s
Joined: 22 Oct 2010
Posts: 262
Location: Gloucester UK
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:15 am Post subject: |
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There are probably more Martini editions available in the US and Europe mainland, of the 3,000 sold most were LHD, and only 100 RHD variants came into the UK where there are less than 20 known, which makes it somewhat special here.
_________________
1984 n/a Ruby Red Metallic
1988 924S Guards red- sold
1986 924S Guards Red - sold
1984 n/a Black - sold
1980 n/a Le Mans#1 - sold
1980 n/a Le Mans#2- sold
1977 Martini - sold |
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TJC
Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 828
Location: Central-ish Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:20 am Post subject: |
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| scm924s wrote: | | There are probably more Martini editions available in the US and Europe mainland, of the 3,000 sold most were LHD, and only 100 RHD variants came into the UK where there are less than 20 known, which makes it somewhat special here. |
Very true.
Aside from this one, the one that Dan sold, and others belonging to board members I've seen at least 1/2 dozen come up for sale or sold in perhaps the last 6 months. Your UK cars are indeed more precious!
_________________
'95 BMW 318i/5 ..."Pearl"
'87 Porsche 944 NA... "Liebchen"
'02 Porsche Boxster..."Sunbeam"
'04 BMW X3..."Xander"
Still on the Prowl!
www.ttrs1.com |
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Kenodog
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 2651
Location: Vancouver,B.C.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| TJC wrote: | | morghen wrote: | I poured 5k into my run of the mill 924 already and i havent bought any seats or carpets for it...just a new dash.
Now i want a martini |
UH-OH!!!
So my friend, if I decide to pass on this one shall I contact you first? Yes I realize it's a "second class" NA version and shipping would be a hassle but...
Let me know ! |
Pft, good luck. Morghen's all talk until you invite him to this side of the pond. Than it's all excuses about why he can't make it...his cat got sick, his groin rash is acting up, blah blah blah
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1979 Euro 931, Olive
1981 931, Sabine
1991 Ford Ranger XLT 4x4, Ricky
1996 Ford E-350 ex-FedEx Van
2014 Mazda CX-5 (Kinderwagon)
2019 KTM 790 Adventure
2024 KLX300
2024 KLX140 |
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Harm
Joined: 02 Apr 2009
Posts: 1373
Location: Holland
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| Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:23 am Post subject: Re: Martini... |
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Forget Martini
Go Sebring!
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