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Power thru 'special' upper cam shaft timing gear.
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Raceboy  



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2305
Location: Estonia, Europe

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

COP on 8v is pointless... There is no real benefit and packaging is nightmare. Better use wasted spark coilpack, it is cheap, easy to install and packs high energy. But then rises question...why?
If going through the hassle of fitting a trigger wheel, sensors etc for the ECU to control the coilpack then might as well install fuel rail and have full EFI.. and turbocharge it, then it would make some sort of sense as you get real fun engine not just guessing whether you gained something or not. Not to mention heaps and bounds better driveability...
_________________
'83 924 2.5 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 Irish Green hotrod, 2.4S
'89 944 S2
'91 944 S2
'78 924 Carrera GT project
'78 911 SC 2.5 ss Turbo
'82 924S/931 "Gulf", sold
'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche
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safe  



Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 21
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

newbie924 wrote:
Would the turbo head fit without any problems on the NA block since the blocks are the same? Also can COP's be fitted to a webered engine, or does this require any major mods... I think that the COP system would more suit a turbo head since the plugs are on the inlet side and therefore will not be effected by exhaust heat. These thoughts would all be for future modsbut good to know as Im quite happy with the car as is for now mechanically since I still have body work/paint to do.


It would fit, but the compression would be way too low since the turbo has combustion chamber in the head.
COP would work, but you need some way to fire them, with EFI its not a problem, with carbs you need some stand alone ignition module.

I did some research and the LS2 coils (from any GM v8 with LS2 forward engine) would be really good and not that expensive. They are coil-near-plug, on a V8 the usually mount to the valve cover I think.
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newbie924  



Joined: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 75
Location: EUROPE MALTA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I wrote in my first comment 'I have no mechanical knowledge of engines' just basics. So as explained ,COP would be better fitted to a turbo engined car,so I will put that to the side since I prefer N/A, weber or throttle bodies.

Since the turbo head has combustion chamber(?) can it be modified to increase compression for the NA engine or will it not go higher than 9.3:1 since the Euro turbo engine is measured at 7.5:1. Bear in mind that these are just ideas I am collecting for any further future modifications I might be interested in. I am quite happy with having a hot cam, webers, lightweight body, suspension upgrades and some other minor details like engine compartment cooling , grippy tyres etc for the immediate time.
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safe  



Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 21
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

newbie924 wrote:
As I wrote in my first comment 'I have no mechanical knowledge of engines' just basics. So as explained ,COP would be better fitted to a turbo engined car,so I will put that to the side since I prefer N/A, weber or throttle bodies.

Since the turbo head has combustion chamber(?) can it be modified to increase compression for the NA engine or will it not go higher than 9.3:1 since the Euro turbo engine is measured at 7.5:1. Bear in mind that these are just ideas I am collecting for any further future modifications I might be interested in. I am quite happy with having a hot cam, webers, lightweight body, suspension upgrades and some other minor details like engine compartment cooling , grippy tyres etc for the immediate time.


You need a set of custom piston, a set of JEs is about 725.00 US$.

Some inspiration, Michael Mount built 924 engine.
https://flatsixes.com/cars/porsche-924/the-worlds-fastest-porsche-924-takes-another-land-speed-record-at-bonneville/
Ported turbo head, carbs, custom pistons, custom cams, dry sump and probably a lot more...
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newbie924  



Joined: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 75
Location: EUROPE MALTA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

safe wrote:
newbie924 wrote:
As I wrote in my first comment 'I have no mechanical knowledge of engines' just basics. So as explained ,COP would be better fitted to a turbo engined car,so I will put that to the side since I prefer N/A, weber or throttle bodies.

Since the turbo head has combustion chamber(?) can it be modified to increase compression for the NA engine or will it not go higher than 9.3:1 since the Euro turbo engine is measured at 7.5:1. Bear in mind that these are just ideas I am collecting for any further future modifications I might be interested in. I am quite happy with having a hot cam, webers, lightweight body, suspension upgrades and some other minor details like engine compartment cooling , grippy tyres etc for the immediate time.


You need a set of custom piston, a set of JEs is about 725.00 US$.

Some inspiration, Michael Mount built 924 engine.
https://flatsixes.com/cars/porsche-924/the-worlds-fastest-porsche-924-takes-another-land-speed-record-at-bonneville/
Ported turbo head, carbs, custom pistons, custom cams, dry sump and probably a lot more...


Ok , Im not looking into breaking records, just a few ideas to make the car handle better and maybe a bit quicker on a limited budget for now anyway. My intention is to have a little race car I can have some fun with at weekend events. coming last wont matter to me in any case either with this car. I think that the hot cam will give me a few extra horses and if I can keep it under control in the corners with better brakes, suspension and tyre setups then I will consider adding mods for more speed in short distances. Your comments have been appreciated though.
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safe  



Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 21
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

newbie924 wrote:
safe wrote:
newbie924 wrote:
As I wrote in my first comment 'I have no mechanical knowledge of engines' just basics. So as explained ,COP would be better fitted to a turbo engined car,so I will put that to the side since I prefer N/A, weber or throttle bodies.

Since the turbo head has combustion chamber(?) can it be modified to increase compression for the NA engine or will it not go higher than 9.3:1 since the Euro turbo engine is measured at 7.5:1. Bear in mind that these are just ideas I am collecting for any further future modifications I might be interested in. I am quite happy with having a hot cam, webers, lightweight body, suspension upgrades and some other minor details like engine compartment cooling , grippy tyres etc for the immediate time.


You need a set of custom piston, a set of JEs is about 725.00 US$.

Some inspiration, Michael Mount built 924 engine.
https://flatsixes.com/cars/porsche-924/the-worlds-fastest-porsche-924-takes-another-land-speed-record-at-bonneville/
Ported turbo head, carbs, custom pistons, custom cams, dry sump and probably a lot more...


Ok , Im not looking into breaking records, just a few ideas to make the car handle better and maybe a bit quicker on a limited budget for now anyway. My intention is to have a little race car I can have some fun with at weekend events. coming last wont matter to me in any case either with this car. I think that the hot cam will give me a few extra horses and if I can keep it under control in the corners with better brakes, suspension and tyre setups then I will consider adding mods for more speed in short distances. Your comments have been appreciated though.


Best "NA bang" for the buck is to deck the block 2 mm. Get another engine, can usually be had for cheap, do the mods and swap it over.
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newbie924  



Joined: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 75
Location: EUROPE MALTA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

safe wrote:
newbie924 wrote:
safe wrote:
newbie924 wrote:
As I wrote in my first comment 'I have no mechanical knowledge of engines' just basics. So as explained ,COP would be better fitted to a turbo engined car,so I will put that to the side since I prefer N/A, weber or throttle bodies.

Since the turbo head has combustion chamber(?) can it be modified to increase compression for the NA engine or will it not go higher than 9.3:1 since the Euro turbo engine is measured at 7.5:1. Bear in mind that these are just ideas I am collecting for any further future modifications I might be interested in. I am quite happy with having a hot cam, webers, lightweight body, suspension upgrades and some other minor details like engine compartment cooling , grippy tyres etc for the immediate time.




You need a set of custom piston, a set of JEs is about 725.00 US$.

Some inspiration, Michael Mount built 924 engine.
https://flatsixes.com/cars/porsche-924/the-worlds-fastest-porsche-924-takes-another-land-speed-record-at-bonneville/
Ported turbo head, carbs, custom pistons, custom cams, dry sump and probably a lot more...


Ok , Im not looking into breaking records, just a few ideas to make the car handle better and maybe a bit quicker on a limited budget for now anyway. My intention is to have a little race car I can have some fun with at weekend events. coming last wont matter to me in any case either with this car. I think that the hot cam will give me a few extra horses and if I can keep it under control in the corners with better brakes, suspension and tyre setups then I will consider adding mods for more speed in short distances. Your comments have been appreciated though.


Best "NA bang" for the buck is to deck the block 2 mm. Get another engine, can usually be had for cheap, do the mods and swap it over.


I Have a spare part car (1979 model), therefore an extra engine , head, body parts etc.. so what you say is possible, but I still prefer the NA weber/ throttle body set up. The project as is has been on hold for some time now and my plans are to go forward as planned. The other block can be tackled in due time and swapped as you say safe, but lets see if the car is fun first.
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Raceboy  



Joined: 01 Mar 2004
Posts: 2305
Location: Estonia, Europe

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure where you read that COP is better for turbo engine but it is totally not true.. COP is most useful with very high revving engine where firing them individually allows for longer time for coil charging between firing events, that's all.
_________________
'83 924 2.5 16v Turbo, 470hp
'67 911 Irish Green hotrod, 2.4S
'89 944 S2
'91 944 S2
'78 924 Carrera GT project
'78 911 SC 2.5 ss Turbo
'82 924S/931 "Gulf", sold
'84 924, turbocharged, sold.
http://www.facebook.com/vemsporsche
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newbie924  



Joined: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 75
Location: EUROPE MALTA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raceboy wrote:
Not sure where you read that COP is better for turbo engine but it is totally not true.. COP is most useful with very high revving engine where firing them individually allows for longer time for coil charging between firing events, that's all.


I have no idea what COP system are better for,, as I said I have no expert mechanical knowledge, If you understood that I said that , then I must have been mis-interpretation. Here I ask only as I have no knowledge about these engines. I did say though that the COP system would more suit a 'TURBO HEAD' since this head has its plugs on the inlet side and therefore evade heat from the exhaust..(since the plugs on the NA head are right above the exhaust) but it seems this turbo head would not suit the NA engine for compression reasons.


Last edited by newbie924 on Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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safe  



Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 21
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

newbie924 wrote:
, but lets see if the car is fun first.


Its a really fun and easy to drive car. Its lovely on twisty roads, so "chuckable" in corners and roundabouts!
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newbie924  



Joined: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 75
Location: EUROPE MALTA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One other silly question most probably. but since the plugs on the NA head are on the exhaust hot side, is it possible to machine the spark plug threads on the inlet manifold side instead of the injectors if throttle bodies or webers are used. We had to plug these injector holes when fitting the weber set up and correct me if I am wrong but dont both the injectors and plugs come out in the combustion chamber side? Would this side be better for the COPs to be in order to avoid heat from the exhaust, obviously if EFI was also fitted to throttle bodies? This in my imagination with go perfect with a decked block and other piston mods no?
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safe  



Joined: 18 Mar 2017
Posts: 21
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

newbie924 wrote:
One other silly question most probably. but since the plugs on the NA head are on the exhaust hot side, is it possible to machine the spark plug threads on the inlet manifold side instead of the injectors if throttle bodies or webers are used. We had to plug these injector holes when fitting the weber set up and correct me if I am wrong but dont both the injectors and plugs come out in the combustion chamber side? Would this side be better for the COPs to be in order to avoid heat from the exhaust, obviously if EFI was also fitted to throttle bodies? This in my imagination with go perfect with a decked block and other piston mods no?


Everything is possible with the right amount of money, but in a more practical sense, No.

Injectors sits in the intake port, not in the combustion chamber.

A coil pack or individual coils with short leads to the plugs would be a better choice than COPs if there is a desire to remove the distributor and have a programmable ignition.

Check out MegaJolt that uses Ford EDIS components.
https://wiki.autosportlabs.com/MegaJolt_Lite_Jr.
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