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The Green 931 -my first transaxle ever (resurrection thread)
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Shurick  



Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 486
Location: Russia, Moscow.

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kondzi wrote:

I'm still worried about this TRRRR sound I was mentioning before, but I'm beginning to think this might be related to some valve and/or boost/vacuum sensor. When I press gas pedal quickly or depress it quickly it does a single "click". Sometimes it "Resonates" into TRRRR sound.

The rattling and click sound is probably the bypass valve integrated in coldside of turbocharger. I don't remember exactly about rattle, but clicking is normal.

kondzi wrote:
BTW does the turbo kick in only when under load? I.e. when revving the engine on stand I've not noticed any boost on boost gauge, nor in MegaSquirt Vacuum Dial?

Yes, turbocharger generates positive pressure (significant) only under load.
_________________
WBR, Shurick
'79 931 -- intercooled K26-3060-6.10 turbo @ 1.2 bar, EFI+EDIS, 951S brakes, stripped interior, 951 look.
'86 924S -- R.I.P.
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 49
Location: MZ/Poland/EU

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks Shurick. That calms down a bit my mind Most probably this TRRR (rattling) sound was due to issues with ignition I had. I'd need to listen more carefully now if it's still present honestly.

Similarly previously when misfiring I could hear turbo kicking in when revving engine on stand still - which does not happen now when I eliminated DITC and misfiring.

And here a custom 3D printed MegaSquirt case I created for my 931, as I did not have the "standard" aluminum case or any other at all.


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Konrad

'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
'74 Ford Capri 1.3 (factory specs)
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 49
Location: MZ/Poland/EU

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been a while, but what a journey it was... I'm a father now My son was born about 3 weeks ago. First child... Hope he will grow quickly to help me with the cars

Here's a fresh YT video:

https://youtu.be/WPbnJDEd4Xw

I'm progressing with my 931, building the wiring harness from scratch for MS/EDIS setup. I left the EDIS power independent of MS, so at the moment MS, EDIS and o2 sensor (Innovate LC-2) are powered up from a relay driven by ignition key. Then MS triggers fuel pump relay. That way if engine is not revving (either cranking or running), the fuel pump is not running. Previously I used a cable jumper to power up the fuel pump to run the engine. In addition I've disabled priming pulse in MS, not to flood the cylinders with fuel due to the stock CIS injection rather than EFI during key on/off sequences.

Here's a little bit of the mess I created with new wiring:


I'll need more time to make that clean and smooth, but it seems all works correctly now.

I've hooked up some sensors to MS, so I can see in single view what's happening with the engine (i.e. boost, Intake Air Temperature, Battery Voltage, Revs, etc.)

I'll still need to connect the Coolant Sensor to have more visibility. BTW will connecting just to the Temp Gauge wiring work for that? Or better to create new independent harness from the sensor for that purpose?

And there is a little add-on I've managed to get on a bargain

Unfortunately will need to fit 17 inch rims for that, but I'll leave that maybe for next year or so.
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Konrad

'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
'74 Ford Capri 1.3 (factory specs)
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Cédric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1742
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations! It definitely a life changer with kids, especially if you got more of them. My oldest(4years old) loves to ride the porsche. Although after the last ride he told me we need to get a new car which is even faster, because its fun to go fast. He accepted my plan to turn up the boost though



Stock fuel relay also do a priming pulse when you turn on the key, it doesnt flood unless the AFM plate moves.

Those brakes looks massive overkill, i hope you get it right
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´79 924
http://www.garaget.org/show.php?car=211
´80 924 Turbo
http://www.garaget.org/?car=160275
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 49
Location: MZ/Poland/EU

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well with stock relay and priming pulse injectors did this whining sound, and they do that only when they open. Same when I did it with MegaSquirt. Will sort that out when I start using this car on regular basis - it’s just a switch

As of the brakes, these are from 996 Turbo. Got the set in picture for c.a. USD350. So why should I not?

I’m still not sure if these will go to 931 or my 911 Carrera 3.2. Overkill? Definately yes! Will these brake as hell? Yes. Will these look awesome? Yes. Did I make any brake upgrades before? Yes! Do I have time for that? Not really LOL

Time will tell
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Konrad

'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
'74 Ford Capri 1.3 (factory specs)
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Cédric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1742
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, they look really cool, and a really nice price! But its actually really easy to get worse braking performance with big brake upgrades than the standard items, its a problem you see quite often. Its all about getting the brake balance correct, if you overbrake at either end of the car you will definitely get worse performance(performance as in brake distance) than the stock setup which has a really good brake balance. But you have done this before so you probably know what to do

Yeah, getting time for projects is always challenging, but there will always be time here and there for fun stuff, you just have to lower the expectations a litte bit
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´79 924
http://www.garaget.org/show.php?car=211
´80 924 Turbo
http://www.garaget.org/?car=160275
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Cédric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1742
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Offtopic: Have you done anything fun with the mustang in your siganture?, a friend of mine recently bought one (92) and started planning for some modifications.
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´79 924
http://www.garaget.org/show.php?car=211
´80 924 Turbo
http://www.garaget.org/?car=160275
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 49
Location: MZ/Poland/EU

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cédric wrote:
Offtopic: Have you done anything fun with the mustang in your siganture?, a friend of mine recently bought one (92) and started planning for some modifications.


Not much, sent you e-mail as PM does not work (maybe the "e" in Cedric messes things a bit). Hope you got it?
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Konrad

'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
'74 Ford Capri 1.3 (factory specs)
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 49
Location: MZ/Poland/EU

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was wondering if someone can tell my by the pictures what kind of turbocharger my 931 is equipped with?

Here some photos I managed to catch it previously. Unfortunately the ID Plate has only some numbers of the company that was rebuilding it (before I bought the car).

Please see below, and let me know if you have any ideas












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Konrad

'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
'74 Ford Capri 1.3 (factory specs)
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1581
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Impossible to tell without a tag, part numbers of turbine and compressor housings or visuals on the compressor wheel
_________________
1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, CGT turbo, 951 ducted FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife LSD
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 49
Location: MZ/Poland/EU

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've cleaned few things under the hood. Installed air filter with it's cover, replaced oil (as it was full of petrol) and cooling fluid.

Engine starts by a touch of ignition key (both cold and warm), and runs smoothly starting c.a. 1800 RPM and going down gradually to c.a. 900 RPM with fuel pressure rising to about 3.7-3.8 bar.

Checked the AFR and pressures. Seems to be good, but more on the rich side. When warm, engine idles with c.a. 3.7-3.8 bar and AFR 14-14.1 when cold it starts from c.a. AFR 10.5-11 (cold start valve on) then goes to 12.2-12.5 (cold start valve off) and rises gradually to AFR 14 with RPM dropping at the same time.

Still need to set the boost enrichment, but had no time for that this weekend.



The next weekend, whenever it will come, my plan is to set the boost enrichment pressure, instal WUR in place, install bonnet and have a proper test drive

I left the engine idling today for about 20 minutes, to let the excess of fuel/oil evaporate/burn from the exhaust. I was first worried where this smoke comes from, but hey, when running very rich when cold there was no smoke at all, when running AFR 14 there was some dark smoke (exhaust hot). I cannot imagine anything other, that the remains of unburnt fuel from all my trials without ignition landed in the pipes.

I tried also to hook up the temp gauge sensor to megasquirt but failed. Seems MS requires more sofisticated temp sensor. I've seen people are mounting new ones instead thermo time switch (when converting to EFI), but with my stock CIS in place this is not a way to do it. Is there any other place such temp sensor can be installed? Obviously I prefer engine head rather than any coolant pipe. Not sure if I need it, but might be good to have a better insight into MS logs / gauges together with all other input.

I will do IAT based timing retard based on factory IAT sensor readings (works fine with MS), and was wondering also if I could hook somewhere knock sensor, to save my engine when trying to tune spark table.

Have any of you have installed knock sensor for 931 engine? What sensor did you use (from what car) and when you have fitted / screwed / mounted it?
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Konrad

'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
'74 Ford Capri 1.3 (factory specs)
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 49
Location: MZ/Poland/EU

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This looks to me like:

5326 182 3103 ?

and

5326 101 51 10 F ?

EDIT: Found on this forum ( http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=15595 ) smn mentioning 5326 101 5190 f for the cold side - must me same as mine.


[/img]

Sorry nothing better at hand...
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Konrad

'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
'74 Ford Capri 1.3 (factory specs)
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1581
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kondzi wrote:
This looks to me like:

5326 182 3103 ?

and

5326 101 51 10 F ?

EDIT: Found on this forum ( http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=15595 ) smn mentioning 5326 101 5190 f for the cold side - must me same as mine.


[/img]



Sorry nothing better at hand...


First number relates to the recirc valve end cap and no help to the turbo spec

The second number is the same as two of my compressor housings. One contained a S1 spec 2470 wheel and the other contained a CGT spec 2660. So again no help in telling us what spec wheel is in there

The turbine housing will have a #4 or #6 under the part number to tell us what size it is.
_________________
1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, CGT turbo, 951 ducted FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife LSD
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252


Last edited by Carrera RSR on Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cédric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1742
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great progress, i have a a knock sensor, a std Bosch one, its mounted on a boss sitting just under the intake manifold. The hole is taped but not used, so i just screwed it in there. Have served me well through the years, it's a really good safety net to have.
_________________
´79 924
http://www.garaget.org/show.php?car=211
´80 924 Turbo
http://www.garaget.org/?car=160275
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kondzi  



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 49
Location: MZ/Poland/EU

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not much (visual) progress, but when you want to make something good it is always taking to much time.

I finished all the cabling related to ignition system. Here's an overview how it looks like in the engine compartment:

https://youtu.be/fUItJYS_p0Q

Engine runs steadily, any changes I make to CIS (rich/rean) seems to reflect nicely in AFR readings. My Spark table is conservative under boost, so I may not get all the stock power yet.

I have a minor issue with Auxilary Air Valve - when the engine warms up it should decrease the amount of air and with fuel pressure rising (delivering less fuel) the Idle RPM should lower to c.a. 900 RPM. Anyway seems AAV hangs sometimes and when I knock on it with a wrench or so it closes in the end. Maybe it's because it was not used for so long and when I start using it it will eventually get back to fully operating condition.

Here's a video from my second test drive. Still without the bonnet and with WUR outside, as I want to double check the pressures the next time. Someone who put the WUR between engine and firewall should hang

https://youtu.be/OaWLg5eR2Z0

Forgot to check the turbo numbers, hope to get these next time.

@Cedric - what Knock Sensor controller you're using? The sensor alone does nothing, there needs to be something that translates what sensor hears to some action (spark retard).
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Konrad

'88 Mustang 5.0 LX Convertible (factory specs)
'84 911 Carrera 3.2 RoW (factory specs)
'81 931 RoW (TBD)
'81 Ford Capri 2.8i (factory specs)
'79 Ford Capri 2.9 (heavily modded)
'74 Ford Capri 1.3 (factory specs)
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