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GTR/GTP drysump pump - search

 
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Mikko  



Joined: 02 Jun 2017
Posts: 13
Location: Finland, Helsinki area

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:52 pm    Post subject: GTR/GTP drysump pump - search Reply with quote

Hi,

I´ve been trying to find the correct part to add an original 924GTR/GTP drysump oil pump system to my engine, but haven´t yet had much luck with this. I know that almost every part connected to these cars a N/A, but during my searches I have found a few clues. If someone knows better or has additional pictures regarding the pump assembly I would be glad to have those

So far it seems that the original pump is propably built from two different oil pumps sourced from Porsche/VAG parts bin. The pump itself seems to have two sections a scavenge pump and a pressure pump. The scavenge section looks to be based on Porsche 928 oil pump (flange and driving shaft look the same), but it is then inserted to a casting which houses a second pump. This pump must be the pressure pump, but so far I have not found where its from.. The 930 scavenge pump looks a bit similar as the pressure pump in this system, but there are differencies. also the 911 sportomatic external oil pump seems to be a dead end.

I am able to make aluminium castings, but the problem is that second pump.. Maybe, if someone has a photo showing the back of the pump that could solve this problem?

Thanks in advance,

Mikko

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1m2HCp2mq2RWKxaMzzI0wGDjdUw3Pl4h21g

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CY9LWIo-ZRJ1NMLoFQMsnieUup2wa_vojg

928 pump (don´t mind the green highlight, picture is sourced from web)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1m-QQK_mp5_JAuYu-KwuJVbpX9Cyd2Blo-g
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Paulyy  



Joined: 05 May 2014
Posts: 87
Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a reason why you want the original pump?

Can't go aftermarket?
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Mikko  



Joined: 02 Jun 2017
Posts: 13
Location: Finland, Helsinki area

PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Paulyy,

I propably need to get an aftermarket solution and most likely these new ones are also far better in performance.

But, if the pump would be somewhat easy to build I would like it better. My car is quite modified as is and it would be nice to have a feeling that the parts on it are also not something just bought off the shelf.

Br,

Mikko
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Paulyy  



Joined: 05 May 2014
Posts: 87
Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's no real problem with getting an aftermarket oil pump. A lot of race cars use them with out issues.
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Cédric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1830
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you talked to Mattias Aronsson who built a GTS FIA replica, he also sells reproduction of parts. If you want i can send you his contact info
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Mikko  



Joined: 02 Jun 2017
Posts: 13
Location: Finland, Helsinki area

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Cèdric, no I haven't. Please, if you have his contacts I would like to have it. Was he the guy who did the Gtr rallycar replica?

Br, Mikko
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Cédric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1830
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pm sent!
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Shurick  



Joined: 15 May 2005
Posts: 500
Location: Russia, Moscow.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like external oil pump was used only to scavenge oil.


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'79 931 -- intercooled K26-3060-6.10 turbo @ 1.2 bar, EFI+EDIS, 951S brakes, stripped interior, 951 look.
'86 924S -- R.I.P.
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Mikko  



Joined: 02 Jun 2017
Posts: 13
Location: Finland, Helsinki area

PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

As my project is starting to go overboard I had to source a copy of a GTR usermanual/spare parts catalogue.

The pump in question does actually seem to have 928 internals, but only the outer 92810720504 and inner 92810720404 rotors.

The book also explains how the system is set up and you are right Shurick. However, here is the explanation for all of them:

1. Scavenge suction inlet from oil pan
2. Pressure outlet line to oil cooler
3. Suction inlet oil line from turbocharger
4. Pressure oil line to kugelfischer MFI pump

The original oil pump is modified so that the suction side from oil pan is blocked, but it uses the standard gear 924 wheels. There are threads and a AN type connector threaded to the casting that allows oil to be pumped from the oil tank positioned in the spare wheel well. The oil pressure regulator is modified with bespoken parts. Manual says the system is run at 7,5-8,0bar@5000rpm. Standard 924 runs at 4,0bar@5000rpm so this must the difference. The spring and plunger are same as 924, but the valve housing is different as well as its seal ring which is 21x26mm. The seal standard seal ring is 20,5mm which might suggest change in valve housing diameter.

Br, Mikko
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Daniel12  



Joined: 19 Apr 2018
Posts: 10
Location: South Carolina

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know little about the mechanicals of the 924 GTR/GTP but here is a picture I ran across on Porsche UK's site of the renovation of a 924GTP. The dry sump pump they are using here appears to be of the normal, commercially available modular type used in racing. It looks pretty much the same as the TDC pump on my FC.



Here is the link to the restoration article. They mention something in the video about the original oil pump and water pump being impossible to source.

https://www.porsche.com/uk/accessoriesandservice/classic/924-gtp-restoration/
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1987 924S Red ITS #12
1995 993 Polar Silver
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michel  



Joined: 25 Feb 2018
Posts: 1
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cédric wrote:
Have you talked to Mattias Aronsson who built a GTS FIA replica, he also sells reproduction of parts. If you want i can send you his contact info


Hi could I have his contact also.
Thx
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Scott Sanda  



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is late to the discussion, but for what it is worth, all the D prod cars I have ever seen, including mine, use a standard Weaver style external oil pump, like is shown in the picture.

They are robust, easy to rebuild, and inexpensive. Personally, unless you are trying to achieve something very unique, go with one of these.

It will save you a lot of headache, heartache, and cost. Plus, keep in mind that builders of race cars saw them as tools, not as the almost sacred shrines we treat them as. So they used whatever was at hand, that fit the purpose, for the least cost.

If you want a specific example, My D prod car was built up by Tom Brennen. It was built from the start to run in SCCA GT3, and won a National Championship in 85.

It, and all of Tom's builds, including his championship DP cars, do not have factory serial numbers. Porsche stamped them onto the shock tower top.

Tom cut them off, and welded in a plate as a top mount, with a camber adjustable top, and threw the stamped parts with the serial numbers away.

I was talking to him a couple of months ago, and we were both crying in our beer a bit, since there is no picture or record on my SN, or of the SN of the D prod car Tom has sitting in his garage.

In his own words " they were race cars. We cut things off and changed things to make them faster all the time. No one thought about preserving them for future value. If I had known then what I know now, I would have welded the damn thing to the inside of the tub somewhere".

Scott
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TJC  



Joined: 04 Apr 2010
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Location: Central-ish Arizona, USA

PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^What Scott said pretty well sums it up and has been my experience as well.
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Mikko  



Joined: 02 Jun 2017
Posts: 13
Location: Finland, Helsinki area

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All,

Thanks for the answers and suggestions so far. Idea is to get the car as close to stock, but it might be so that I need to proceed with an aftermarket part from the same period. Thanks Scott for your insights.

However, during my search quest so far, I now know one seller that has the original pump. Let's see where it leads to.

Endless websurfing and years doing so often eventually pays off

Br,

Mikko
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1723
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you tried Freisinger Motorsport?
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Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252
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