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Electronic Boost Controller for 931

 
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cjdrivesporsche  



Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Posts: 2
Location: marina, ca

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:03 am    Post subject: Electronic Boost Controller for 931 Reply with quote

I am planning to do some basic upgrades in phases and am thinking about an electronic boost controller. First, I don't like the stock exhaust sound which is barely more throaty than a hybrid! I want to either go to more of a european tune by deleting my cats and putting on a nice muffler like a borla. I understand messing with the exhaust can cause overboost and a electronic controller can avert that. Secondly, I think even without an intercooler, my US 1980 S1 car safely used slightly more boost in euro tune. So, my plan is to duplicate that for a modest bump in power and better sound until i can add an intercooler later. I have read 10 psi is ok on a stock 931 w/o intercooler. I do want to add a 951 FMIC but that would be phase 2.

Any brand preference? I have seen used HKS ECV 4s for $200 and new HSV ECV S for around $300-$400. Thanks!
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1590
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Changing the exhaust has no effect on boost/overboost. Only effect is that boost may come on earlier with less back pressure in the exhaust.

A manual boost controller making the stock waste gate a two port affair will suffice

Euro 931's run 10psi which should see your stock 143bhp upped closer to euro 170bhp or so
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, CGT turbo, 951 ducted FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife LSD
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CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1752
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I chose the industrial way, fairly cheap and excellent regulating performance, and it looks properly old school.



I have a gizzmo IBC-R on the shelf which i bought cheaply second hand, might test it this summer, but its a tad fiddly to set up. Therefore Ill go MBC first to have reliable performance when my new setups is up and running.

Set it up to euro spec and you will have alot of fun. I recommend running a wideband lambda in the tailpipe just to check that it runs fine and safe while you raise boost.
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cjdrivesporsche  



Joined: 13 Mar 2018
Posts: 2
Location: marina, ca

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:25 am    Post subject: Thanks gents! Reply with quote

Appreciate the reply. I had some doubts about the overboost issue but am glad you cleared it up! Also, the industrial solution looks cool too!
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Dutch924-racer  



Joined: 23 Jul 2007
Posts: 1006
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is how I installed it, strang thing is that without boost controller it is max 0,65 bar. With boost controller all open 0.8 is the lowest


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CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1752
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will wire it up like dutch racer aswell, its great that our waste gates are prepared for that kind of setup.

Its a Riegler 0,1-3 bar controller for pressurized air systems, bought it for performance and the fact that it looks like a period boost controller from the 70s, but only costs a fraction. The only thing it lacks is a metal knob, what will be a later project.. I do like that these kind of controllers have a detailed spec sheet and spare parts are available etc. Its very bulky and heavy though there are many smaller industrial versions aswell.
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1590
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dutch924-racer wrote:
This is how I installed it, strang thing is that without boost controller it is max 0,65 bar. With boost controller all open 0.8 is the lowest



I have a similar 9xx boost/air regulator installed the same way. Regulator is in the centre console rather than engine bay. Minimum boost pressure is 0.7bar instead of 0.65bar when in lowest position. Usual boost is set at 1.2bar. Max boost registered on my data-logger recently is 1.46bar!!! It triggered the knock sensor!!!! Ambient air was below zero that morning


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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, CGT turbo, 951 ducted FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife LSD
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bureau13  



Joined: 07 Sep 2017
Posts: 81
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need to do something like this as well, although I need to sort my current 1 bar boost issue first (as in, why am I getting 1 bar?! Either someone changed the spring intentionally or I have a wastegate diaphragm leak, would be my guess).

Still trying to decide if I want a controller in the cockpit or not.

Theoretically, wouldn't the programmability of the EBCs be an advantage? Do they simply not work that well? The idea of (for instance) limiting boost in first, or based on RPM, etc...seems like it could be useful. Plus I really don't know that I want to route all that vacuum tubing into my cabin (for a cockpit install, obv)
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1982 931
1986.5 Silver 928S
2007 Hummer H3 (Daily Driver)

Past lives (I miss them all):
2004 RX-8 (Wrecked)
1993 RX-7 (Sold)
1987 RX-7 Turbo II (Sold)
1985 RX-7 GSL (Stolen)
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924RACR  



Joined: 29 Jul 2001
Posts: 8115
Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love that setup, Carrera!

Have my VDO boost gauge and WBO2 set up old-school in one of the center-speaker replacement pods from Dan. Well, I will once I get around to that; currently in a roughed-up flat plate install.

No boost controller yet, though; want to get some more run-time with stock settings and be certain I have the car debugged before I start turning up the wick... looking forward to it, though, as well as the 951 FMIC that's been waiting in the wings for 15+ years...
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1559
Location: MI

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was using a regulator similar to cedrics but not correct like his.
I think it was from a helium tank setup for making party balloons..
I put much lighter springs into it until it would give me the pressure range I wanted but I was not satisfied with it..

Say I tuned the boost to 14 psi one day, the next day it would take a lot of getting into boost to get enough pressure in my top port built back up to bring the boost back up to where I had it set.
So I would end up turning it up to get my boost up and then backing it back down every time I wanted to use it..

I'm not going to rig that one back in and am not sure what I'm going for in a BC next..
Ultimately I want to get a solenoid and program my megasquirt to control it.

In the meanwhile, I somehow acquired an odlschool blood pressure taker thing with the squeeze ball, guage, and balloon cuff thing..
Crazy, but I want to test it on my top port and see if I can use it to set my top port pressure and see what boost effects it can give me at certain top port pressures, like increasing the spring pressure..
But that's probably just nonsense..
I want to program my MS ECU to EBC and limit boost in 1st and maybe 2nd a bit but it's not quick and easy and is down the list a ways..

I just want to get my intake back together and fire it up right now but my dogs seems to have spilled my TB guts all over and I haven't found them all yet.. I had it stripped for TPS adaptation and this spring I found the its main axle far away from where I think I left it.. Pretty sure I had all the guts in a ziplock and the dogs played with the ziplock.. They made quite a mess of my empty ziplocks and a book of sandpaper all over the place..
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bureau13  



Joined: 07 Sep 2017
Posts: 81
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, probably a dumb question, but when you guys are installing these boost controllers that connect to the upper port on the stock wastegate...are you physically removing the wastegate to do so? I can't even see the top of it from above, and I don't think I can get my hand up there from below, even if I remove the J-pipe. I could be wrong about that, as I haven't tried, but it just doesn't look like much room.
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-----------------------------------------
1982 931
1986.5 Silver 928S
2007 Hummer H3 (Daily Driver)

Past lives (I miss them all):
2004 RX-8 (Wrecked)
1993 RX-7 (Sold)
1987 RX-7 Turbo II (Sold)
1985 RX-7 GSL (Stolen)
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1559
Location: MI

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bureau13 wrote:
OK, probably a dumb question, but when you guys are installing these boost controllers that connect to the upper port on the stock wastegate...are you physically removing the wastegate to do so? I can't even see the top of it from above, and I don't think I can get my hand up there from below, even if I remove the J-pipe. I could be wrong about that, as I haven't tried, but it just doesn't look like much room.


I don't think their is a way other than pulling the WG out..

I would also rank doing so as one of the most difficult jobs to perform on the 931.
It takes a few different wrenches, sockets, universal, extensions, stubbies, and stubbie ratcheting wrenches to get at the multitude of hard to get a tool on bolts..
I forget if it's a 12 or 13, but when I do it, pretty much find every 13mm wrench I have in different lengths and angles and go through most of them trying to get at the bolts..
And then the WG bracket that mounts to the torque tube.. Have fun getting that back on much less off.. Stubbie ratcheter is pretty much the only way..

The thing is also cast iron and the studs tend to break.. Exhaust parts, rust..
If you aren't extremely lucky then brush up on your broken bolt extraction techniques.. I had to drill a few of them out until you could see the threads and run a tap in em..


If you ever have it out I'd highly advise adding the top port tube to it while you can..

If the diaphragm is toast, what is it $100-$150 bones..

Buy rastas car, it has a sparkling fresh WG, good thread too.. (forum thread)
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bureau13  



Joined: 07 Sep 2017
Posts: 81
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ugh, that's what I was afraid of. I was hoping there was a trick...

Fasteddie313 wrote:
bureau13 wrote:
OK, probably a dumb question, but when you guys are installing these boost controllers that connect to the upper port on the stock wastegate...are you physically removing the wastegate to do so? I can't even see the top of it from above, and I don't think I can get my hand up there from below, even if I remove the J-pipe. I could be wrong about that, as I haven't tried, but it just doesn't look like much room.


I don't think their is a way other than pulling the WG out..

I would also rank doing so as one of the most difficult jobs to perform on the 931.
It takes a few different wrenches, sockets, universal, extensions, stubbies, and stubbie ratcheting wrenches to get at the multitude of hard to get a tool on bolts..
I forget if it's a 12 or 13, but when I do it, pretty much find every 13mm wrench I have in different lengths and angles and go through most of them trying to get at the bolts..
And then the WG bracket that mounts to the torque tube.. Have fun getting that back on much less off.. Stubbie ratcheter is pretty much the only way..

The thing is also cast iron and the studs tend to break.. Exhaust parts, rust..
If you aren't extremely lucky then brush up on your broken bolt extraction techniques.. I had to drill a few of them out until you could see the threads and run a tap in em..


If you ever have it out I'd highly advise adding the top port tube to it while you can..

If the diaphragm is toast, what is it $100-$150 bones..

Buy rastas car, it has a sparkling fresh WG, good thread too.. (forum thread)

_________________
-----------------------------------------
1982 931
1986.5 Silver 928S
2007 Hummer H3 (Daily Driver)

Past lives (I miss them all):
2004 RX-8 (Wrecked)
1993 RX-7 (Sold)
1987 RX-7 Turbo II (Sold)
1985 RX-7 GSL (Stolen)
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1590
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Attached my top port hose from above. I had the intake manifold off for maintenance anyhow. But I have had the top port off/on since with manifold in place. But my WUR is not in the stock position. Still not easy and you are doing the wrenching by feel and blind.
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1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, CGT turbo, 951 ducted FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife LSD
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252
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Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1559
Location: MI

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lvHYmwEpwY

Dome Control at the end.. Wow..
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