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Another Rescue Attempt - So Close!

 
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peterld  



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 659
Location: Noosa Heads QLD Australia

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:18 am    Post subject: Another Rescue Attempt - So Close! Reply with quote

So...after years of repairing/refurbishing/rebuilding everything......comes the day to bring another 924T S2 to life.
Fuel/Oil/expensive waterless coolant/gel battery....check!
Churn, churn, churn......and it fires up. A little rough, but I hold steady revs to warm it up. Now it's getting rougher.....seemingly running on 3 cylinders. Switch off....check plug leads/dissy and cap/timing and much, much more. Nothing much to be seen, except the new, but now years old water pump is pissing the expensive fluid out of the pump weep hole. Bugger....mental note to get another one.
Oh, and the ceramically painted exhaust manifold and exhaust are bubbling away, creating a toxic plume in the shed and setting off the smoke alarms in my house. Yeah, can still live with that too!
OK, let's give it another try. Churn, churn churn......cough, splutter....and a very rough run....then it dies.
Ok, feels like it's not getting fuel, but......tank has been cleaned/lines have been cleaned/new in-tank pump/new external fuel pump (also noted in General Discussions)/new fuel filter (correctly oriented)/professionally rebuilt fuel dissy and WUR/professionally cleaned injectors and so on.
So down to the Reject Shop to buy four glass jars......pull injectors and test.
Fuel relay jumpered, ignition on, pumps on but spray pattern not great.......each injector having about 4 streams of fuel, but not conical as I would expect, and did not seem particularly strong. AND I had to manipulate the plate several times to get the injectors to start. Fifth injector is disabled.
One injector sprays a little more, so I swap it around and attempt the procedure again, but can't get any fuel out at all!

OK, now to the fuel dissy......remove lines, remove dissy....and the plunger drops out....so definitely not stuck. Open it up.....absolutely pristine as new.....must have been ultrasonically cleaned.
Put it all back together again and try the glass jars thing but nothing.....no fuel. It would seem like there is insufficient fuel pressure to pass the fuel dissy, as when I cracked the line to the dissy, fuel sprayed everywhere. I know this is only subjective, and it needs to be tested with a CIS tester, but my tester is unavailable until after the weekend.

So your thoughts, Gents.

Initially had some fuel, though obviously not enough, but now can't get anything. Perhaps wrong pump? as recommended by Bosch Distributor?
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 7691
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:13 am    Post subject: Re: Another Rescue Attempt - So Close! Reply with quote

peterld wrote:
professionally rebuilt fuel dissy and WUR/professionally cleaned injectors


Bullshit.
They did not assemble correctly the fuel dizzy and/or WUR.

Look for the rebuild procedure, get the kit, do it yourself properly..fwck professionally..that word does not mean anything today.
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peterld  



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 659
Location: Noosa Heads QLD Australia

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Fuel in the tank would help!! Wondered what that glowing light in the dash meant.

So this evening I did the injectors in the jar test and eventually came up with 4 injectors that sprayed evenly and at the same rate (interestingly one of the "cleaned" injectors was spraying way too much!
Buttoned everything up again and started it......very rough......needs constant throttle, and sounds like it is running on three cylinders.
Again checked timing, and swapped out the new rotor button/dist cap and leads for old used (but good) items....still no change.

Tomorrow I'll swap out the new spark plugs and continue checking.
Oh, and the clutch pedal is now on the floor and the brakes aren't far behind.
What's that old saying......use it or you lose it'. All this stuff was new or refurbed ages ago and now it's crapped itself again just by sitting there.

BTW, I have no problems with rebuilding this stuff myself. Only yesterday I had the fuel dissy apart suspecting exactly such a scenario, but it was brand new inside....I was suspecting a pinched o-ring or similar. As stated the fuel plunger was so free it dropped out and to double check the orientation, I pulled apart an old fuel dizzy I bought off a Board member years ago. That was a prime example of "gummed"up. Almost black inside and full of crap.
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bear924  



Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 70
Location: South West Queensland, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently rebuilt my 924 engine and your experience seems similar to mine on the first start. My issue was that my timing was out by one timing belt mark, I adjusted the timing and that sorted out the issue.

Car is now running well except I have a large air leak that reduces once the car is running. Appears the air leak is coming from the 'oil surge tank??' for the turbo... the one that sits between the turbo and block. Plan is to remove the turbo (groan) and get this fully sealed.
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peterld  



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 659
Location: Noosa Heads QLD Australia

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hiya Bear......well this arvo I finally had another chance to fiddle some more.
Dropped the belt, lined up crankshaft pulley with pointer, Z in the window at flywheel, camshaft dot with pointer, re-installed belt, pulled distributor, set and refitted, replaced leads, etc, etc.
Fired straight up again, but won't idle and sounds like it's out on one cylinder!

This is really pissing me off. Need to have agood think about this....

What do you mean by the oil surge tank' ? Are you referring to the oil return line/drainback to the side of the sump? These often crack as they are super thin metal and need to be carefully brazed as a fix.
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peterld  



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 659
Location: Noosa Heads QLD Australia

PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, got back at it again today.
Advanced timing by one belt tooth......as before, starts right up, but sounds to be out on one cylinder.
Retarded timing by one belt tooth.......starts right up, but hardly runs at all.
So....back to correct timing. Starts right up, but sounds like missing one cylinder.......won't idle of course, and very rich (and that's without 5th injector operational). Exactly the same with cold start injector plugged in.

So far:
Rebuilt motor and turbo. Rebuilt fuel distributor and WUR. New fuel pumps. Injectors spraying evenly and at same rate. Distributor correctly timed. New plugs/wires/rotor/cap/battery/vacuum hoses/injector seals etc, etc.

What have I missed?
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 7691
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

err...lean out the mixture until it idles? or do you expect the system to be self calibrating? because its not...you have to adjust the mixture manually
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peterld  



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 659
Location: Noosa Heads QLD Australia

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Morghen, you're so right!

I initially set the mixtures as per the FSM........that is, with fuel relay jumpered, crack an injector line, turn the metering screw until fuel starts to appear, then lean off by half a turn.
While I was trying to get it to run, and knowing it was obviously rich, I tried half a turn leaner, then a full turn leaner without any difference and thinking it must have been something else, returned to my original setting.
A recent post by Tiny (UK) made me twig .
Crack the injector line, go very lean, then richen until you start to hear the injectors screech......back half a turn and very close to good.
Sure enough, with everything buttoned up, it started and idled well enough to make final adjustments!!!
This cracking an injector line and watching fuel flow is very subjective.......I was a full 2.5 turns TOO rich. Doh.
So now of course I have a myriad of other niggles........brake light/oil light are on/fuel guage dances around/and apart from the tacho, no other guages are registering even though I meticulously cleaned all connections when everything was apart eons ago. So everything needs a good going over before I tackle the clutch and brakes.
But some success spurs me on.
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