Show full size 924Board.org
Discussion Forum of 924.org
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
 Technical FAQ924 FAQ (Technical)   Technical924 Technical Section   Jump to 924.org924.org   Jump to PCA 924 Registry924 Registry

Straight six engine in a 924
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    924Board.org Forum Index -> Engine Transplants
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 304
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

morghen wrote:
thats nice but i expected some on the road 5000RPM noise


Haha, it's gonna take some time before I have such a video. Don't think I will go there, before the ignition is controlled also.
_________________
Euro 924, 1976

"If you can't fix it, don't break it"

/P.G. Andersen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 304
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, here is a video of a drive I took this evening.

https://youtu.be/C5JzDQQ3KeU

The short "HISSS" you can hear between the gear shifts, comes from the intake.

I'm running without vacuum advance, since I found out that it doesn't work right. Apparently, it retards the ignition, when I floor the pedal. I couldn't get the engine to accelerate, without sputtering. And it was damn slow.

So I took the hose off, and run centrifugal only, which works ok. I have advanced the ignition so much that I can hear a slight knock, when the engine is idling, cold. Just so that I won't loose too much power.

But the winter project is to get control over the ignition, via the Megasquirt.
_________________
Euro 924, 1976

"If you can't fix it, don't break it"

/P.G. Andersen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 7716
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome video. The engine sounds really nice!
_________________
red 924 and not red 924
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
gegge  



Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 1006
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just can´t get enough of that lovely sound. Had to hear it over and over again. Reminds me of classic BMW.
_________________
Carl Fredrik Torkildsen

924 turbo -81 Carrera GT clone LSD Coilovers
924 -85 DP kit, BBS RS, M030 and tuned engine
924s -86 Black on black with low ET "Phonies"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fasteddie313  



Joined: 29 Sep 2013
Posts: 1432
Location: Not Detriot - NMI

PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Making great progress..
_________________
1980 931S LSD FMIC hobby - 01 RS25 coupe - 95 M3 coupe - 06 X5
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 304
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's still winter and the car is tucked away. But I start it with approx 1.5 month interval, just to warm it up and get the oil out in every corner. Last start was two weeks ago, where the temp was below freezing point in the garage. But it started more or less as it always does, and ran fine.



I have placed a moisture absorber inside the car.

I've been thinking alot about how I should upgrade the ignition system, so the ECU can control timing. I have finally made the decision.

Wasted spark.

So I have purchased a brand new coil pack from a VW VR6 engine.



I would also like to be able to control the idle, so I found at 3 wire idle motor. Think I will start with the coil at first.

You might have noticed that all the pictures from the beginning of the build were gone. The were uploaded at Imageshack. They changed their policy, so it wasn't free anymore. It would cost 1 USD a month I think. I didn't want to have a constant cashflow for the rest of my life, for keeping a few pictures, so in the end, Imageshack deleted them. I have uploaded the pictures on my webhotel, where I have my Email and website, so they should all be there again.
_________________
Euro 924, 1976

"If you can't fix it, don't break it"

/P.G. Andersen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 304
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm back on the project again. There are four things to be done.

1. install new coil pack
2. install idle control valve
3. weld short pieces of pipe onto the lower intake manifold.
4. install fuel damper

I took off the distributor and made a bracket for the VR6 coil pack. The old spark plug wires fit ok. The bracket also holds the fuel damper (golden bell next to the coil pack) I hope this can reduce injector noise.



Here is the idle valve installed, on the underside of the intake manifold.


When I made the lower intake manifold last year, my original plan was to weld short pieces of pipe onto it, so the short pieces of silicone hose had a good mating surface. But when I worked on the manifold, it looked as if the original casting was good enough to attach the hose to. But it wasn't. The intake runners are not cylindrical anywhere, so the hose and clamps were impossible to fit correct. They would hang on yes, but I wasn't happy about it, it looked as if they could pop off.

So now was the time to get this right. First cut off a little of the intake runners.


Then weld on the short pieces of pipe.


Next is to paint the lower intake manifold, install the whole thing and start wiring.
_________________
Euro 924, 1976

"If you can't fix it, don't break it"

/P.G. Andersen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 304
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IT'S ALIVE....AGAIN!

Today I started the engine with the VR6 coil pack. It fired right up and ran perfectly

I've had my worries, since it wasn't that easy to find info on what signal the coil pack accepts(I didn't want to fry the brand new coil pack). Also, I found two answers on which terminal fired which coil. But all that is in the past now.

One thing didn't work out as I hoped. The idle valve(3 wire Bosch). When I activated it, the engine suddenly ran 3200 rpm. I switched the two signal wires, but then the engine jumped between idle and 3200 rpm, so I need to do some reading and trial/error, before that works.


_________________
Euro 924, 1976

"If you can't fix it, don't break it"

/P.G. Andersen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
JjyKs  



Joined: 05 Oct 2015
Posts: 114
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That manifold is very cool !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11334
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are you using to control the ICV? Probably a pulsed signal of some sort.
_________________
Toofah King Bad
  • Shaggy (1980 931) - Got Boost?
  • Red (1987 924S) - Pro44/Spec944
  • Weiße Scheiße (1987 924S) - In Progress
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 304
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must admit that I don't know exactly how the idle valve works, I just hooked it up to the Megasquirt as the diagram shows and hoped the settings I could see in Tunerstudio were ok to start with.

(the target value for warm idle was 800rpm, so I didn't expect 3200 rpm.....)

But yes, Megasquirt sends a puls to the valve, since it's possible to change the working frequency under the settings for idle control. It's not just an on/off valve.

The middel pin in the connector on the idle valve is a constant 12V+, while the other two goes to the MS

There are a bunch of settings for the idle valve in Tunerstudio, and I haven't found out yet what they are for. Tried messing a bit with the frequency today, but not to much avail.
_________________
Euro 924, 1976

"If you can't fix it, don't break it"

/P.G. Andersen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 304
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't figured out how to get the idle valve to work, so for now I have disconnected it, and run without it.

Instead I focused on getting the last few things done, so the car is driveable again; installing the ECU in it's place, zip tying wires into place and get the tachometer to work.

When I installed the engine, I also installed a converter, so the tach could work with the 6 cylinder signal from the coil. Now that I have removed the coil and installed a coil pack, I have to use the tach output from the ECU. However there is a problem with that signal. It is too weak for the converter box. It needs the "spikes" generated when the signal is taken from a coil.

To overcome this problem, I took an ordinary 12 volt relay and connected the tach output from the ECU and the input to the converter box to terminal 85. 12 volt (ignition) was connected to terminal 86. The little coil in the relay can now generate the spikes for the converter box (and directly to the tach, if I had the original 4 cyl engine)

It is necessary to remove the arm inside the relay, otherwise it will make noise.

So now the tachometer works again.

And then, time for a testrun on the road. I have taken a few short trips, but what a difference. Well of course, when I ran with the original distributor, the vacuum advance didn't work well(eventually I disconnected it) and that cause hiccups now and then. The ignition table that was already in the ECU isn't that bad, haven't touched it.

The engine pulls nicely and has a better transition from gentle opening to violent opening of the throttle body.

Explanation: The inside casting of the throttle body is made so the opening doesn't change much on the first, maybe 15-20° degrees of movement. But after that, the opening really gets big. If the throttle is moved quickly through this area, you can hear a "SSSCCCCHHHHHOOOO" because it really sucks much air in. When I had the distributor on the engine, it didn't advance the ignition when this happened, so you can imagine a thud the whole car could give.
_________________
Euro 924, 1976

"If you can't fix it, don't break it"

/P.G. Andersen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 304
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today I got the idle valve working. The valve frequency was way off.

Only in warm up mode, not closed loop.


Warm up: the valve opens/closes according to the engine temp.

Closed loop: the ECU keeps a desired rpm according to the engine temp, and compensates for load put on the engine.


I took the valve off the engine and plugged the hole in the intake manifold, so I could have the engine running and see inside the valve, to inspect if the settings I changed, made any difference at all. When I changed the frequency, something happened, and thereafter it was quite easy to get it to run in warm up mode.

I tried switching to closed loop, but then the valve just closed. Messed a little around with some settings, but not really any difference.

But for now, I'm happy that it works in warm up mode. The only load I put on the engine, is when the radiator fan starts, I don't have A/C.
_________________
Euro 924, 1976

"If you can't fix it, don't break it"

/P.G. Andersen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Horizonblue  



Joined: 13 Oct 2011
Posts: 304
Location: Sorring city, Denmark, Europe

PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A little update on the car. I have replaced the Bosch 044 fuelpump with an original (Porsche) 944 pump, still Bosch brand (Part number: 0 580 464 069). It bothered me a little that the fuel relay was hot, already after 1/2 an hour or so. It also bothered me that the pump was noisy, although it could not be heard when I was driving.

So I investigated a little in fuel pumps and found out that the 044 pump can consume up to 15.5 AMP..... An original Porsche 944 pump only consumes 7 AMP. And it still delivers adequate fuel for my current and future needs. Quite silly to drive around with heavy load on the electrical wiring, when less can do the job.

It fits the original bracket better than the 044 pump and it is more quiet than the 044 pump. Took the car for a spin yesterday, but afterwards I forgot to check if the fuel relay was hot........

Anyway, I should have investigated more into what fuel pump I need, before I made the purchase. But I just thought, hey, everybody talks about the 044 fuel pump, so why not pick that one.

Some would probably ask; why is the relay hot at "only" 15.5 AMP ?. The rating for it is 30 AMP. The problem is that it is not the original, I have replaced it with a no name (probably made in China, which I don't like) but it was the only one I could find, that had a fuse on it. I'm not sure that the original relay could be used. This no-name relay probably has a tendency to turn hot, if the load is heavy. It shouldn't be a problem now, but I will check next time. I keep a spare in the car, just in case......
_________________
Euro 924, 1976

"If you can't fix it, don't break it"

/P.G. Andersen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    924Board.org Forum Index -> Engine Transplants All times are GMT + 11 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12
Page 12 of 12

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group