Show full size 924Board.org
Discussion Forum of 924.org
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
 Technical FAQ924 FAQ (Technical)   Technical924 Technical Section   Jump to 924.org924.org   Jump to PCA 924 Registry924 Registry

My narrow 951 project
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 14, 15, 16
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    924Board.org Forum Index -> Engine Transplants
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
GeorgeV  



Joined: 14 Mar 2010
Posts: 301
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edredas wrote:
For those interested; a 951 trans does directly bolt into a 924S. All you have to do is swap the mounts.

As of today, I have been on the board ten years!

Happy birthday!

How are you finding the 951 box?
_________________
1981 932 with mods:
http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=37921
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
edredas  



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 855
Location: Charlotte, NC

PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The higher gearing was a much needed change. The speed limit here is 70 mph (112 kp/h), so that is where I like to cruise. With the 924S box I was cruising at 3000 rpms, and now I'm at a more comfortable 2500 rpms. The engine was just freely revving at that speed with no load; this was fun for passing, but very loud and annoying when cruising. It was like driving in fourth gear.


On a side-note, I had never really looked at the codes on my transmissions until I pulled the one out my 924S. When the code didn't match I decided to see what was going on and check my other transmissions.

Below, I have listed the correct codes for all non-LSD transmissions used in the 944/924S. All cars Worldwide in 1988 used the 5Y transmission.




Here's a chart that roughly shows you the speed at any given rpm with the various transmissions.


_________________
'86 944 -Garnet, Fully loaded, Koni suspension
'87 924S -Red, 300hp 951 swap
'87 924S -Red, New Project
'87 924S -White, Automatic
'88 924S -Red, Daily Driver, Bone stock
'93 Mx6 -White, Megan Racing suspension
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 7871
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weird thing happened. I used the NA gearbox and it was like you say, too short and too loud to cruise with...so I swapped a 944S2 gearbox that is almost as long as the 951S one. Now I drive and cruise faster at higher RPM than before
_________________
red 924 and not red 924
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
edredas  



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 855
Location: Charlotte, NC

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know what you mean, even at 3000rpms the car is more civilized. Before when I was in 5th the engine had that "shift up" sound when I was driving at 65mph, but now I can drive at 80mph and the engine makes only the low "cruising" hum.


Since this is a daily driver, I now find myself spending a lot of time in the lower revs. The past few days, I've been trying to make the car feel smoother and more usable in the 2k rpm range. This meant testing the throttle position sensor and doing a yearly tune-up and compression test. The car is much smoother now and has plenty of low end power for commuting.

The spark plugs looked great. No coolant loss or oil in any cylinders.

[/URL]



Cylinder #1 140 PSI
[/URL]

Cylinder #2 140 PSI


Cylinder #3 142 PSI


Cylinder #4 137 PSI

_________________
'86 944 -Garnet, Fully loaded, Koni suspension
'87 924S -Red, 300hp 951 swap
'87 924S -Red, New Project
'87 924S -White, Automatic
'88 924S -Red, Daily Driver, Bone stock
'93 Mx6 -White, Megan Racing suspension
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
edredas  



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 855
Location: Charlotte, NC

PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those interested, I made an Auxiliary Waterpump diagram and added it to the other wiring diagrams on the first page. Also, here is a great wiring diagram that has just about everything you need to do this engine swap.

You can view the full size copy here: http://metaloft.com/pics/951/tech/87_944turbo_wiringdiagram_Sheet8.JPG


_________________
'86 944 -Garnet, Fully loaded, Koni suspension
'87 924S -Red, 300hp 951 swap
'87 924S -Red, New Project
'87 924S -White, Automatic
'88 924S -Red, Daily Driver, Bone stock
'93 Mx6 -White, Megan Racing suspension
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
edredas  



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 855
Location: Charlotte, NC

PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is everything you need to know about the turbo and N/A clutches.

I had intended to do this long ago, but the pictures must have gotten deleted.

Anyway, let's get started...

On the left is the turbo and on the right is the N/A.



The Flywheel

Lets break it down and have a look at the flywheel. As you can see, the flywheels are the same exact size, despite the turbo having a larger clutch disk. Otherwise it would hit the reference sensors.




You can see here that there is plenty of room for a larger disk to fit within the same area by moving everything out to the edge.




Here's a closer look...



The Disks

(Left) The turbo disk is 9.5 inches (241mm) while the N/A disk (Right) is 8.88 inches (224mm).



The Pressure plates

The turbo flywheel is pushed outwards, leaving clearance so that the bolts won't hit the disk; unlike the N/A. However, this does leave less room for the pressure plate. Therefore, the pressure plate on the turbo is shallower, yet has more clamping force.

Note: I would not recommend using an N/A clutch for this swap. Notice the difference in drive straps.



The starter ring gear

As mentioned in a previous post, the starters for the late N/A and turbo models are the same, so the teeth on the starter rings are also the same. However, the turbo starter ring is slightly larger; having two more teeth, (130 vs 132).

Note: The difference in teeth also means that the 951 motronic wouldn't be able to run a car using an N/A clutch properly.

You can find more information here:

http://www.motronic.ws/advance.htm



I hope this helps! In the coming weeks I plan to do a break down in differences between the bellhousings....
_________________
'86 944 -Garnet, Fully loaded, Koni suspension
'87 924S -Red, 300hp 951 swap
'87 924S -Red, New Project
'87 924S -White, Automatic
'88 924S -Red, Daily Driver, Bone stock
'93 Mx6 -White, Megan Racing suspension
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
edredas  



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 855
Location: Charlotte, NC

PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2015 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After writing this, I discovered that the 6R I was sent was not removed from a turbo car. While it looked identical to mine, it did not clear the turbos larger starter ring during installation. I promptly sent it back and received a 4R. So, I am correcting the information here and as to not cause any further confusion.


Here they are side-by-side. (turbo 4R left)




Note there has been no machining inside the turbo, (left). The 4R bellhousing has a bit more room where the starter ring is.




Also, I was incorrect, the starter mount is indeed moved 1.1 millimeters farther away.

N/A (60.65mm)




Turbo (61.75mm)




The difference...



I hope this helps!
_________________
'86 944 -Garnet, Fully loaded, Koni suspension
'87 924S -Red, 300hp 951 swap
'87 924S -Red, New Project
'87 924S -White, Automatic
'88 924S -Red, Daily Driver, Bone stock
'93 Mx6 -White, Megan Racing suspension


Last edited by edredas on Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:30 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
edredas  



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 855
Location: Charlotte, NC

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sent that other bellhousing back and corrected my previous post.

In other news, my clutch was getting where it slipped pretty badly. So I had the flywheel resurfaced and I'm replacing my old disk with a Cup disk. I hope to have the engine in sometime this weekend!




Also on the agenda is rebuilding the Power Steering Pump/Rack and do a venturi delete.


_________________
'86 944 -Garnet, Fully loaded, Koni suspension
'87 924S -Red, 300hp 951 swap
'87 924S -Red, New Project
'87 924S -White, Automatic
'88 924S -Red, Daily Driver, Bone stock
'93 Mx6 -White, Megan Racing suspension
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11355
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure it was the clutch and not that poor little skinny right hand tire?
_________________
Toofah King Bad
  • Shaggy (1980 931) - Got Boost?
  • Red (1987 924S) - Pro44/Spec944
  • Weiße Scheiße (1987 924S) - In Progress
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
edredas  



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 855
Location: Charlotte, NC

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, a pound of dust poured out when I removed the pressure plate. I don't think it had much life left to begin with. It was just about out of spec and should have replaced it during the first build, but was trying to save money where I could.

I should be good to go now!
_________________
'86 944 -Garnet, Fully loaded, Koni suspension
'87 924S -Red, 300hp 951 swap
'87 924S -Red, New Project
'87 924S -White, Automatic
'88 924S -Red, Daily Driver, Bone stock
'93 Mx6 -White, Megan Racing suspension
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
edredas  



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 855
Location: Charlotte, NC

PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just finished off a bunch of other projects and have come back to this one. I dropped the engine a while back to replace the clutch among other things and I never put it back together.

This is the current state of the car. I was either going to go with a carrera gt kit or paint it two-tone... so I've decided to go two-tone; White over Red. I already have a red 924S so I figured I would do something different...



As you can see above I sourced a new wiring harness and I had some custom battery cables made.



The entire engine bay and battery box has been restored and painted with factory guards red.




I've got all the bolts ready to be zinc plated this time. I also rebuilt the power steering pump and rack... so clean


_________________
'86 944 -Garnet, Fully loaded, Koni suspension
'87 924S -Red, 300hp 951 swap
'87 924S -Red, New Project
'87 924S -White, Automatic
'88 924S -Red, Daily Driver, Bone stock
'93 Mx6 -White, Megan Racing suspension
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
edredas  



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 855
Location: Charlotte, NC

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just finished painting the shell. Fresh out of the shop today! I hope to have the doors and hood painted soon!








_________________
'86 944 -Garnet, Fully loaded, Koni suspension
'87 924S -Red, 300hp 951 swap
'87 924S -Red, New Project
'87 924S -White, Automatic
'88 924S -Red, Daily Driver, Bone stock
'93 Mx6 -White, Megan Racing suspension
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    924Board.org Forum Index -> Engine Transplants All times are GMT + 11 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 14, 15, 16
Page 16 of 16

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group