| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Bockscar
Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 392
Location: Sandy, Oregon
|
 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:36 am Post subject: How to remove trans fill plug on '79 |
 |
|
I've got a 1979 924 which means I have a snail shell, I think.
I've looked through the forum and saw a number of threads where folks are talking about servicing their transmissions, but nobody seems to be talking about how to remove the fill plug so I assume I'm doing something wrong here.
The fill plug on my transmission is less than an inch from the transmission mount support. This means all I can do is place the 17mm allen key into the bolt, but that's it. I don't have room to attach a socket or room for leverage or anything.
The only thing I can think of is lowering the transmission so that the fill plug is below the support. Is there some hidden secret that I'm not aware of here? How are people removing this plug??
_________________
Brian
'79 924 - Restoration In Progress
'81 924 Turbo w/EFI - Scrapped |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
fiat22turbo
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 4040
Location: Portland, OR
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yup, drop the side mounts and either raise or lower the transaxle to get access.
Its irritating, but such is life. At least one has to do it rather infrequently.
While you're in there, double check your shift linkage
I hope you're using Redline fluid in it.
Good luck!
_________________
Stefan
1979 924 Carrera GTS (clone-ish)
1988 944 Turbo S (Silver Rose) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bockscar
Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 392
Location: Sandy, Oregon
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| fiat22turbo wrote: | Yup, drop the side mounts and either raise or lower the transaxle to get access.
Its irritating, but such is life. At least one has to do it rather infrequently.
While you're in there, double check your shift linkage
I hope you're using Redline fluid in it.
Good luck! |
What if I unbolted the rear mount and lifted the rear of the tranny up so that the fill plug is above the mount so I could use a socket + extension?
Also, where is the linkage located? My linkage is shot, I can barely find reverse
_________________
Brian
'79 924 - Restoration In Progress
'81 924 Turbo w/EFI - Scrapped |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fiat22turbo
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 4040
Location: Portland, OR
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
Whatever works for you, it won't hurt to try it.
The linkage runs along the top of the torquetube into the upper right hand side of the transaxle. Basically right above the torsion bar carrier.
Here's some pics from repairing my torquetube and shift linkage:
http://s148.photobucket.com/user/fiat22turbo/library/Porsche924/shiftlinkage
The bushings are 914 bits and have to be installed from the inside of the "knuckle"
You have to push the large pin out of the shift rod to get the knuckle off to install the bushings.
To get the shift rod out, requires disconnecting the shift lever in the cabin.
_________________
Stefan
1979 924 Carrera GTS (clone-ish)
1988 944 Turbo S (Silver Rose) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
I took a 17mm trans plug removal tool and cut off about 1/2" or so of the end. It's enough to fit into the fill plug. Then I use a standard box wrench to remove it. No need to mess with the mounts or lower the trans 
_________________
erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fiat22turbo
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 4040
Location: Portland, OR
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ideola wrote: | | I took a 17mm trans plug removal tool and cut off about 1/2" or so of the end. It's enough to fit into the fill plug. Then I use a standard box wrench to remove it. No need to mess with the mounts or lower the trans |
Except he needs to service his shift linkage and lowering the transaxle makes that, um, possible.
but yeah, a shortened 17mm allen with a box wrench would work.
_________________
Stefan
1979 924 Carrera GTS (clone-ish)
1988 944 Turbo S (Silver Rose) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
I was replying to the OP, didn't see the linkage reference. The only way to service the entire linkage (which includes the ball cup socket on the guide tube) is to drop the entire trans, in which case this whole discussion is moot. Drop the trans and be done with it. It's a fiddly job, but not that difficult. The hardest part is getting to the bolts where the nose cone fastens to the torque tube.
_________________
erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fiat22turbo
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 4040
Location: Portland, OR
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ideola wrote: | | I was replying to the OP, didn't see the linkage reference. The only way to service the entire linkage (which includes the ball cup socket on the guide tube) is to drop the entire trans, in which case this whole discussion is moot. Drop the trans and be done with it. It's a fiddly job, but not that difficult. The hardest part is getting to the bolts where the nose cone fastens to the torque tube. |
I disagree as the ball cup rarely wears out in comparison to the main knuckle which is removable with the transaxle lowered slightly.
If the ball cup is in need of replacement, I'd not want to try and reinstall it with the torque tube in place, that's an Impossible Mission even Ethan Hunt would run away from. So you might as well pull the torque tube for service along with the transaxle while you're that deep into it.
_________________
Stefan
1979 924 Carrera GTS (clone-ish)
1988 944 Turbo S (Silver Rose) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bockscar
Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 392
Location: Sandy, Oregon
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| fiat22turbo wrote: | | ideola wrote: | | I was replying to the OP, didn't see the linkage reference. The only way to service the entire linkage (which includes the ball cup socket on the guide tube) is to drop the entire trans, in which case this whole discussion is moot. Drop the trans and be done with it. It's a fiddly job, but not that difficult. The hardest part is getting to the bolts where the nose cone fastens to the torque tube. |
I disagree as the ball cup rarely wears out in comparison to the main knuckle which is removable with the transaxle lowered slightly.
If the ball cup is in need of replacement, I'd not want to try and reinstall it with the torque tube in place, that's an Impossible Mission even Ethan Hunt would run away from. So you might as well pull the torque tube for service along with the transaxle while you're that deep into it. |
Basically, the shifter feels like I'm stiring a pot of stew. There's no real discernible difference between gears, and getting into reverse requires banging the shifter against the side and pushing up until it pops in. Otherwise, shifting into "reverse" yields 2nd gear. It's quite bad.
I'd really like to avoid dropping the trans if possible.
_________________
Brian
'79 924 - Restoration In Progress
'81 924 Turbo w/EFI - Scrapped |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| fiat22turbo wrote: | | the ball cup rarely wears out in comparison to the main knuckle |
Not in my experience. Every single snail shell I've worked on has had a disintegrated or badly damaged ball cup socket, which directly contributes to slop in the shifter and advanced wear on the trans. In my opinion, it is ridiculous to suggest only doing the universal coupler and not address the rest of the bushings in the shift linkage. It is designed to work as a unit, and all of the bushings (universal, ball cup socket, guide tube nose, and shift lever bearings) need to be fresh, or there will be slop.
| fiat22turbo wrote: | | If the ball cup is in need of replacement, I'd not want to try and reinstall it with the torque tube in place, that's an Impossible Mission |
Greatly exaggerated difficulty. Once the trans is out, the torque tube has enough float that it can be levered down enough to pull the guide tube out of the torque tube tunnel and properly service it on a bench.
Which leads to another point. The universal bushings are also nearly impossible to replace with the shift rod in the car. If the old ones are badly enough disintegrated, they will come out OK, and you can get the press fit pin out. But installing new bushings, especially if you use uprated Delrin bushings (which I highly recommend), requires significant force to reinsert the pin. This task would be nearly impossible to do with the car on a lift, let alone lying on the ground on your back trying to squeeze things back together with a big pair of channel locks. This job is better tackled on the bench using a proper vice or hydraulic press for dis-assembly and re-assembly.
Do it right. Drop the trans. Remove the shift rod and the guide tube. R&R them on the bench. Put it back together. Do it correctly the first time, and do it all the first time. You will then be unlike to have to ever service the linkage again for the life of the car.
_________________
erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15550
Location: Spring Lake MI
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Bockscar wrote: | Basically, the shifter feels like I'm stiring a pot of stew. There's no real discernible difference between gears, and getting into reverse requires banging the shifter against the side and pushing up until it pops in. Otherwise, shifting into "reverse" yields 2nd gear. It's quite bad.
I'd really like to avoid dropping the trans if possible. |
What you are describing is exactly what happens when the ball cup socket is bad. It's likely the guide tube isn't even sitting on the socket any more. When the cup bushing disintegrates, it can fall out completely, and the guide tube will completely flop around. A lot of times what happens is it will float down along the torque tube and get sandwiched between the tube and the tunnel wall, which provides enough hold to actually get the trans in gear. But it will be all floppy like that because the guide tube is moving around and not being held rigidly in place. I've had this happen on three 931s, my Sebring, and my 928.
Trust me. The ball cup socket is toast. Drop the trans.
_________________
erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bockscar
Joined: 16 Nov 2010
Posts: 392
Location: Sandy, Oregon
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ideola wrote: | | Bockscar wrote: | Basically, the shifter feels like I'm stiring a pot of stew. There's no real discernible difference between gears, and getting into reverse requires banging the shifter against the side and pushing up until it pops in. Otherwise, shifting into "reverse" yields 2nd gear. It's quite bad.
I'd really like to avoid dropping the trans if possible. |
What you are describing is exactly what happens when the ball cup socket is bad. It's likely the guide tube isn't even sitting on the socket any more. When the cup bushing disintegrates, it can fall out completely, and the guide tube will completely flop around. A lot of times what happens is it will float down along the torque tube and get sandwiched between the tube and the tunnel wall, which provides enough hold to actually get the trans in gear. But it will be all floppy like that because the guide tube is moving around and not being held rigidly in place. I've had this happen on three 931s, my Sebring, and my 928.
Trust me. The ball cup socket is toast. Drop the trans. |
Well dammit. The odometer says 66k and based on what the PO said about it (he was a British auto mechanic), I don't have a reason to doubt that the car only has about 66k miles on it. When I test drove it, 1st gear grinded like crazy of the car was moving at all. What are your thoughts on that?
_________________
Brian
'79 924 - Restoration In Progress
'81 924 Turbo w/EFI - Scrapped |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fiat22turbo
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 4040
Location: Portland, OR
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
http://www.924.org/techsection/7transaxle.htm
http://www.924.org/techsection/GarageFAQ.htm#snailshellshifter
Syncros are commonly damaged on the Snailshell due to poor driving techniques and badly maintained shift linkage. Especially 1st and 2nd.
Unfortunately I don't think many of the 924 NA Snailshell internal parts are available. Ideola would know for sure though.
My shifter was like it was in a bucket of oatmeal and replacing the knuckle bushings was all that was needed as the ballcup was fine and a complete PITA to get off the torque tube, let alone back in place.
It truly is a poorly engineered design in my opinion, but I do love the dogleg transaxle, so you have to compromise a bit with these older cars.
_________________
Stefan
1979 924 Carrera GTS (clone-ish)
1988 944 Turbo S (Silver Rose) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
leadfoot
Joined: 11 Dec 2002
Posts: 2222
Location: gOLD cOAST Australia
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There are so many componens that will lead to poor shifting and selection, both external and internal trans,
Sounds like your at least in for a proper inspection of both, better all done at the same time,
If you can get parts for the stock shifting mech then great otherwise do what a couple of people have done and change it out for an audi shift lever... Theres pics and info on how to do this...
Rebuilding the trans can get quite x'y and there are some other parts than the dog rings that need to be addressed, but they are better to be done in the same process than have a suck and see policy, the rebuilding is a pretty straight forward though and there a great how to with pics floating around on the net...
The only thing I cant find is a good example of a new gear rod selector, the wedge shaped selector wears at the end and will innevetably cause issues selecting between the shift rods...
IMHO the whole job is one of those better out than in deals, by the time you faf around with it in you can pull the lot and do a proper clean/paint/lube at the same time...
may the nine two force be with you...
_________________
1981 ROW 924 Turbo -
carbon fiber GT mish mash
LS1 conversion in progress... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11733
Location: PacNW
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
When I dropped my low mileage snail the ball cup was, for lack of a better term, empty.
_________________
Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
924 FAQ (Technical)
