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How much bph with orginal Turbo
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931 twinturbo  



Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 117
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:17 pm    Post subject: How much bph with orginal Turbo Reply with quote

How much hp can the original turbo push??

And how much can the original engine take?
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15507
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

S1 supports higher horsepower top-end than S2, so it depends which turbo unit you have. The 937 K26 produced 210 BHP with CIS and a fairly inefficient top mount intercooler. So I suspect the upper bounds would be no more than 250 BHP.

As for the engine itself, there are documented examples here on the board of standard 2.0L components (specifically, the block and the head) acheiving near 400 BHP levels.
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CorsePerVita  



Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 1992
Location: Redmond, Oregon

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ideola wrote:
S1 supports higher horsepower top-end than S2, so it depends which turbo unit you have. The 937 K26 produced 210 BHP with CIS and a fairly inefficient top mount intercooler. So I suspect the upper bounds would be no more than 250 BHP.

As for the engine itself, there are documented examples here on the board of standard 2.0L components (specifically, the block and the head) acheiving near 400 BHP levels.


The question I have about that:

Are the rod bearings questionable at those levels? I feel like anything like that, they should be no doubt replaced, but how often? I know that it's always recommended on the 951. The first thing I was told by several people was "If you do ANYTHING to the car, replace the rod bearings. If it has any miles at all, replace the road bearings. REPLACE THE ROD BEARINGS."
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15507
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Always a good idea to blueprint anything that is going thru a major rebuild. New mains, new rod bearings, new rings, etc.

I've not gotten through the new 924 Carrera book yet, but the ~375BHP GTR engines used the same block, crank, and rods as ours, and rod failure was not an issue as far as I'm aware. The issue was always thermal management, especially with the rear two cylinders, causing burnt valves, blown gaskets, warped heads, etc. One of the GTR cars finished LeMans on 3 cylinders!

I've seen very few cases of rod or related failures on the 2.0L, the ones I've seen have usually been from busted timing belt = piston meets valve = bent rod. The lower end on these motors is quite stout, thanks in no small part to its heritage as a diesel block.
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CorsePerVita  



Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 1992
Location: Redmond, Oregon

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ideola wrote:
Always a good idea to blueprint anything that is going thru a major rebuild. New mains, new rod bearings, new rings, etc.

I've not gotten through the new 924 Carrera book yet, but the ~375BHP GTR engines used the same block, crank, and rods as ours, and rod failure was not an issue as far as I'm aware. The issue was always thermal management, especially with the rear two cylinders, causing burnt valves, blown gaskets, warped heads, etc. One of the GTR cars finished LeMans on 3 cylinders!

I've seen very few cases of rod or related failures on the 2.0L, the ones I've seen have usually been from busted timing belt = piston meets valve = bent rod. The lower end on these motors is quite stout, thanks in no small part to its heritage as a diesel block.


Sounds like it is a 951 inherent thing then. The 2.0L does feel like a damn stout engine. This summer I plan on a turbo rebuild and head rebuild. It's about "That time".
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
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Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the 2.0L does not suffer the same oil starvation issue that was inherent in the 2.5L block.
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leadfoot  



Joined: 11 Dec 2002
Posts: 2222
Location: gOLD cOAST Australia

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oil feeder plastic elbow in head=oil starvation at lifters
Hot spot near water jacket behind no4 cylinder = worn away metal/corrosion and blown head gasket/warped head
Heard of a few spun bearings though...
Stu
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CorsePerVita  



Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 1992
Location: Redmond, Oregon

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

leadfoot wrote:
Oil feeder plastic elbow in head=oil starvation at lifters
Hot spot near water jacket behind no4 cylinder = worn away metal/corrosion and blown head gasket/warped head
Heard of a few spun bearings though...
Stu


I bought one of those delightful brass fittings to replace the plastic elbow so it's never an issue. It's a small upgrade that is well worth it IMO.
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8232
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should get a couple of those for my 924s.
Where did you get them from? Dan..or?

CorsePerVita wrote:
leadfoot wrote:
Oil feeder plastic elbow in head=oil starvation at lifters
Hot spot near water jacket behind no4 cylinder = worn away metal/corrosion and blown head gasket/warped head
Heard of a few spun bearings though...
Stu


I bought one of those delightful brass fittings to replace the plastic elbow so it's never an issue. It's a small upgrade that is well worth it IMO.

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CorsePerVita  



Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 1992
Location: Redmond, Oregon

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

morghen wrote:
I should get a couple of those for my 924s.
Where did you get them from? Dan..or?

CorsePerVita wrote:
leadfoot wrote:
Oil feeder plastic elbow in head=oil starvation at lifters
Hot spot near water jacket behind no4 cylinder = worn away metal/corrosion and blown head gasket/warped head
Heard of a few spun bearings though...
Stu


I bought one of those delightful brass fittings to replace the plastic elbow so it's never an issue. It's a small upgrade that is well worth it IMO.


It was RC if I recall correctly. Peace of mind.
http://924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=24020&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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- 1999 Ducati 900SS
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DZGunner  



Joined: 18 Nov 2014
Posts: 172
Location: Great white north

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't someone find a way to use the old heater hose port at the back to feed straight up to the RAD or something to cool that 4th cylinder down? Sometimes I find things from digging and then forget where I found it.
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CorsePerVita  



Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 1992
Location: Redmond, Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DZGunner wrote:
Didn't someone find a way to use the old heater hose port at the back to feed straight up to the RAD or something to cool that 4th cylinder down? Sometimes I find things from digging and then forget where I found it.


You know that would be cool to know, I can see how that would be useful.
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- 1977 Porsche 924 2.0 N/A (Trackday Project)
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- 1980 Porsche 931 (Daily)
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931 twinturbo  



Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 117
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys for info...

Ideola, still haven`t used the forged pistons an the crower rods you sent to Norway...
Too much Porsches in my garage and to much projects

But I have a friend that will help me with an complete and orginal engine.
Will throw away the bosch unit and replace it with some new and modern.

We are aiming for 200-250bhp...
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911 Targa 1974 Turbolook/Outlaw
964 C2 1992mod
924 Carrera GTS Look(Project)
924Na stock 1982Mod
*911S Targa slantnose 1975mod
*924Na 1977Mod Carrera GT kit
*944NA Type 1 1984Mod
*924 Turbo Serie2 1980mod
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931 twinturbo  



Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 117
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a old pic off the car


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911 Targa 1974 Turbolook/Outlaw
964 C2 1992mod
924 Carrera GTS Look(Project)
924Na stock 1982Mod
*911S Targa slantnose 1975mod
*924Na 1977Mod Carrera GT kit
*944NA Type 1 1984Mod
*924 Turbo Serie2 1980mod
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931 twinturbo  



Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 117
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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911 Targa 1974 Turbolook/Outlaw
964 C2 1992mod
924 Carrera GTS Look(Project)
924Na stock 1982Mod
*911S Targa slantnose 1975mod
*924Na 1977Mod Carrera GT kit
*944NA Type 1 1984Mod
*924 Turbo Serie2 1980mod
*924 Turbo Serie2 1980Mod
*924NA 1982Mod
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