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1982 931 - Choices

 
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cahillsm  



Joined: 26 Dec 2014
Posts: 3
Location: TN - USA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 6:31 am    Post subject: 1982 931 - Choices Reply with quote

Hello everyone, I'm looking for some sage advice about what to do with my 1982 931. This is a car that was purchased new off the lot by my father and a car we now jointly own. It has had a rough life for sure, but we want to breathe some new life into it and try to enjoy it a bit.

First off, I have been reading thru your forums, and others, and realize that most likely this car will never be worth it to 'restore' for a monetary perspective, and that's not an issue. This car has far more sentimental value than I suppose it will ever have in actual value. With that in mind... it's story:

It was never drive particularly carefully, the front spoiler has significant damage. In the early 90's, it 'ate' a deer. This caused quite a bit of damage to the vents on the panel above the bumper, and to the radiator among other things. Then it sat for almost decade before it was take to a local mechanic to "get it working". After many fuel delivery related issues (pumps and filters mostly) the mechanic let it sit, and then gave up on it. While it sat, it developed cracks in the dash and other interior degradation. After it came back home, we had a nasty wind storm one day that damaged part of the house knocking debris onto the car, nothing major, just more dents and dings. Several years after that, we took it to a Porsche certified mechanic (semi-local) and he agreed to repair the engine. He was almost finished, after a distributor swap and several other new and replaced parts, when the timing belt broke. At this point, he no longer wanted to work on the car and we took it back home (2008-ish). Then it sat again until last year when I decided it was time for me to help. Over the past several months, I've assessed the vehicle condition and started making a (quite long) list of things that need to be done to the car, and things I'd like to do to the car. I'm really not interested in conversions, or large mods and as such, the goal is to make the car drive as much like my father remembers it as I can.

Okay, long back story, but I thought that if I wanted genuine help, I should explain the situation as best I could.

So now for the actual questions. I a 90% sure that the engine has at least one bent valve, is still missing several parts (the radiator overflow being the most crucial), and is overall in fairly poor condition as it needs mostly of the rubber hoses and probably most of the seals replaced. This means a rebuild. I've have trouble locating anyone in my local area that can/will work on a 931 (Middle TN). Also, I know that rebuild can be quite expensive. So I started looking for other options. I found this: http://www.carmonkeys.com/1982-PORSCHE-PORSCHE-924-Engine-Assembly-924-Turbo-5-Years-Warranty. Now, I'm not sure what the price for a swap would be, but I'm thinking that the rebuild versus the buy and swap should be similar. and the purchased engine has a 'warranty' (for whatever that is worth). So the question is, what should we do? Rebuild or buy and swap? One other advantage to the buy and swap is that we now have a full (well mostly) engines-worth of spare parts...

Thanks for your time and your input. This is going to be a long process and I'm just trying to get a feel for the enormity of the mountain I have set out to climb...
_________________
1982 Porsche 924 Turbo (931) | 2002 Ford Ranger Edge | 2004 Acura TL A-Spec

Step#1: Get it running. | Step#2: Everything else. Simple.


Last edited by cahillsm on Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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Paul  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 9326
Location: Southeast Wisconsin

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the board, thanks for the desire to save another 931.

From a purely financial viewpoint, you should be able to find a running 931 for the price of those $4,000 used motors.

If you can do the rebuild yourself you will be further ahead in reliability and cost than installing a used motor.

Timing belt failures almost always cause 4 to 5 valves to be bent if the car was idling, more if at higher RPMS.
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
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cahillsm  



Joined: 26 Dec 2014
Posts: 3
Location: TN - USA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the welcome. While in a perfect world, I'd love to do a complete tear down, sandblast, re-lube, and re-assemble with new seals and replace or repair all the worn or damaged parts, I have neither the space or the equipment for such an undertaking. I have done a complete tear down and rebuild, in college, ah those were the days... But now I don't have open access to a workshop or the tools as I did back then.

But back in the real world, I think that a valve job might be enough to get this thing running (if there was no damage to the pistons...). It was running just before the timing belt debacle. I've found the numbers for some local shops, so perhaps they will be able to help. Looks like I need to remove the valve cover and head (possibly) to see exactly what I'm dealing with.

If we decide to get another car, we've decided it should be a late-80s 924S instead. It has "better" 944 components (many appear to be the same as the '82 931 appears to share many powertrain parts with the 944 already), no turbo (I'm a NA fan all-around), and that 924 shape that we love.
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1982 Porsche 924 Turbo (931) | 2002 Ford Ranger Edge | 2004 Acura TL A-Spec

Step#1: Get it running. | Step#2: Everything else. Simple.
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Grenadiers  



Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 3224
Location: Nelson, WI & Prescott, AZ

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I've done both, a lot. The 2.0L lump is going to be cheaper to fix, not as many seals and gaskets as the 2.5L. My '80 924 Turbo has had a similar bad-luck history as yours! Three engines, and one more this summer. Here's my '88 924S when I bought it, nice eh?

Not so nice when I pulled the engine:



But, over a thousand dollars later (no rebuild, rebuilt turbo head, and lots of gaskets and seals).

So, choose wisely~!
_________________
'83 944 Track car.
'88 924S Track car.
'89 944 Turbo
2004 Winnebago Vectra monster RV
2012 Jeep Wrangler
2014 Kia Soul
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1551
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cahillsm wrote:
Thanks for the welcome. While in a perfect world, I'd love to do a complete tear down, sandblast, re-lube, and re-assemble with new seals and replace or repair all the worn or damaged parts, I have neither the space or the equipment for such an undertaking. I have done a complete tear down and rebuild, in college, ah those were the days... But now I don't have open access to a workshop or the tools as I did back then.

But back in the real world, I think that a valve job might be enough to get this thing running (if there was no damage to the pistons...). It was running just before the timing belt debacle. I've found the numbers for some local shops, so perhaps they will be able to help. Looks like I need to remove the valve cover and head (possibly) to see exactly what I'm dealing with.

If we decide to get another car, we've decided it should be a late-80s 924S instead. It has "better" 944 components (many appear to be the same as the '82 931 appears to share many powertrain parts with the 944 already), no turbo (I'm a NA fan all-around), and that 924 shape that we love.


Not sure a 924S is 'better'. Certainly will be more susceptible to chassis rust than a '82 turbo. Belts cost a lot more to change along with the water pump. Etc.

Get the turbo head off and inspect. A head rebuild isn't too hard or expensive especially if you get a donor head for replacement valves
_________________
1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, CGT turbo, 951 ducted FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife LSD
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252
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Paul  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 9326
Location: Southeast Wisconsin

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Removing the head on a 931 with the engine in the car is complicated by the exhaust connections from the exhaust manifold to the turbo and exhaust manifold to the J pipe to the wastegate.

These connections are usually rusted and very easy to strip or break.

That said, removing the head is covered in other posts on this board and can be done with normal tools and skills.

It will cost you nothing but some skinned knuckles to remove the head yourself and see what you have.
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
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kcoyle  



Joined: 16 Jan 2011
Posts: 714
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 to the above, try to get the head off yourself and see what's up. You will have to remove a ton of crap but at least you can get an idea of what its like working on these cars. Personally I would pull the motor if I were serious about getting this car running well as it would be easier in the long run if you factor in what Paul said about broken exaust/turbo connections, leaky oil pan gasket, oil pump gasket, turbo connection leaks, etc. These gaskets are relatively cheap but a PITA if not impossible to replace in the car.

OR, you can still pull the old motor and drop in this one in.
http://lexington.craigslist.org/pts/4814206700.html

IMHO if you will not be doing the mechanical work yourself the shop cost will be crippling, and the 4k engine with warranty sounds nice but the reality is that you don't really know (nor does partsmonkey)what your getting until you buy it and put it in.

Here are a couple of relevant threads if you haven't already read them.
http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?p=353668&sid=cd68770e3031e253ae2e965a1ce3ca74

http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=33026&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

And the overflow tank is the least of your worries!
http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=35048&sid=44eabfa59112fb6cf3efd67bbd085849
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1982 931- Stock with MBC at 8psi

Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it.
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Paul  



Joined: 02 Nov 2002
Posts: 9326
Location: Southeast Wisconsin

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Head can be removed with both the intake and exhaust manifolds in place once the 3 bolts that hold the turbo onto the exhaust manifold and the 2 bolts that hold the top of the J pipe onto the exhaust manifold are removed.

Once these 5 are out, it's an hour job to do the rest.
_________________
White 87 924S "Ghost"
Silver 98 986 3.6l 320 HP "Frank N Stein"
White 01 986 "Christine"
Polar Silver 02 996TT. "Turbo"
Owned and repaired 924s since 1977
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Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11354
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carrera RSR wrote:
924S. . .more susceptible to chassis rust than a '82 turbo.


Huh?
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Carrera RSR  



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 1551
Location: Somerset, UK

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rasta Monsta wrote:
Carrera RSR wrote:
924S. . .more susceptible to chassis rust than a '82 turbo.


Huh?


Here in the UK we are seeing more 924S (and more so 944's) having serious sill and nearby areas rotting out than on earlier 924's. It's like the galvanising was better on early 924's than later.
_________________
1980 931 - forged pistons, Piper cam, CGT turbo, 951 ducted FMIC, custom intake, Mittelmotor dizzy & cam pulley, H&S exhaust, GAZ Gold, Fuch'ed, Quaife LSD
Now www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=34690
Then www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=31252
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cahillsm  



Joined: 26 Dec 2014
Posts: 3
Location: TN - USA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought I should upload some photos of "the beginning." You'll note the replacement distributor system (along with many other things I'm sure). The original system was replaced due to the unavailability of the crack position sensor which had gone bad.

Apologies for the blurry photos.

Engine Bay



Exterior








Interior



_________________
1982 Porsche 924 Turbo (931) | 2002 Ford Ranger Edge | 2004 Acura TL A-Spec

Step#1: Get it running. | Step#2: Everything else. Simple.
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Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11354
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say worth fixing, especially as it has been in your family so long.
_________________
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  • Shaggy (1980 931) - Got Boost?
  • Red (1987 924S) - Pro44/Spec944
  • Weiße Scheiße (1987 924S) - In Progress
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