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931 Track / DE Car Reliability
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Fifty50Plus  



Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 1085
Location: Washington DC area

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both GREAT tracks! SCCA won't allow a turbo in any racing classes so that kind of hampers you. But stay away from the meotter dark side.
Ian, Vaughan('s wife), me and several others all have 924s that we run in IT-B class. It's a perfect long track car and the 5 lug stuff is legal. Getting the car to the edge of the rules in that class is a bit tricky but it's highly reliable. If you want to explore the unknown, the 924NA is legal for F Production and then you can engineer the hell out of it. I've thought about that myself. I already have two caged NAs so maybe someday....
I suggest you build a legal NA, spend some time dialing it and you in and then consider upgrades into Prod. But start with a great cage, Look at Ian's build. Don't do a bolt-in.

If you just want to do Porsche club events and other time trials stuff or drags, a 931 would be a fun way to go and you can go wild on HP and torque. Folks here have some dynamite set ups. Cough(not cheap)cough.

BTW, five lug suspension and brakes for the NA are readily available if you don't find an NA already with the M471 option package. I've got several sets of spares.
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1979 924 NA race car
1982 924 NA race car - Sold
1982 924 Turbo almost a PoS
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1982 924 Turbo nice body, blown engine
1972 911 E race car - going to Vintage
Various 944s to become IT-S race car
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L Cubed  



Joined: 01 Dec 2013
Posts: 11
Location: AL/GA border

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's awesome! I might just do the 924 NA if I can't find a 931. Eventually I want to build a DSR for B-Mod autocross and SCCA Time Trials and probably club racing, but that is a long way off. The 924 is meant to be my first step into racing and race driving.
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Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11378
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

944 Cup allows 931s. Also, the 2.5 924S is a pretty entertaining car for ITS, Spec944, Pro44, and 944 Cup. . .and the list of critical NLA parts is far less daunting.
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  • Red (1987 924S) - Pro44/Spec944
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L Cubed  



Joined: 01 Dec 2013
Posts: 11
Location: AL/GA border

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rasta Monsta wrote:
944 Cup allows 931s. Also, the 2.5 924S is a pretty entertaining car for ITS, Spec944, Pro44, and 944 Cup. . .and the list of critical NLA parts is far less daunting.


That's cool its nice to know I could wheel-to-wheel race a 931 if I decide to try wheel-to-wheel.

What is daunting to me about the 2.5 is all of the timing belt service and other finicky maintenance time-bomb issues for the engine.... but to be honest I haven't done much research into this subject so this could be the hearsay I have "heard" over the years. On the other hand I know there is a racing series for them so they have to be at least sprint race reliable.

Rasta, how has the reliability been on your 924S that you race? Does it follow the mantra "the car is as reliable as your mechanic skills and care allow"? Could you ballpark your maintenance related costs for running the 924S?

Thanks!
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bear924  



Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 73
Location: South West Queensland, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello all,

Sorry if I'm posting to a thread that has run its course, however I enjoyed the tread and thought I'd comment.

My background - I've had my 931 for about 15 years, it is in reasonably good conditions and is basically as it left the factory. In 15 years of ownership I've only needed to walk once, that was caused by the flexible hose from the clutch fluid container bursting and spraying oil onto the hot exhaust manifold. As a general rule I tend to over maintain my car, I don't wait for something to break (apart from clutch hoses), if it looks tired I try to replace it.

Initially the 931 was my only car, this was difficult as I was always concerned I wouldn't get it running again quickly after repairs etc. In 15 years my major failure has been worn turbo seals causing a very smoky exhaust... I sure you'd find posts about this on the forum somewhere.

Over the last few years I've been tracking my 931 with the local Porsche club, not wheel to wheel, just trying to improve my times. Generally I'm the only 924 at these events, and generally I'm the slowest on the track by a reasonable margin (next slowest cars generally are 951s and older 911s). I enjoyed this post as I've decided that I either need to make my 931 quicker, track my 911SC or purchase another track car. I'm currently torn about what to do however that might make a good discussion elsewhere.

The only failure I've had after ~12 track days was a blown vacuum hose (which I taped up to get home) and so I've now replaced all the rubber vacuum hoses. I mention all this for two reasons:
1. A 931 that is maintained is a reliable car, however they are are now >30 years old so if you purchase one that hasn't been loved, you will need to replace stuff.

2. In stock form (especially with a tired engine like I believe mine has) your car will be slower than many others on the track. Ensure you are comfortable with this as it can get you down if you are not in the right mind set. A 931 requires a committment to the car, other newer cars will probably provide a cheaper and faster way to achieve what you want ..... they just won't be as exclusive as a 931
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Rasta Monsta  



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 11378
Location: PacNW

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bear924 wrote:
I either need to make my 931 quicker, track my 911SC


Your 931 should outlap your SC. . .
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  • Red (1987 924S) - Pro44/Spec944
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bear924  



Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 73
Location: South West Queensland, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 931 isn't as quick as the 911 however factory figures for 931 is 177 bhp, 911 205 bhp (I think) so I wouldn't expect it to be.

My first every track day was in the 911 as the 924 was getting some new paint. My last track day in the 931 I was quicker than my 911 times however I think I've improved in the driving department during that time.

I also can't match (or really get near) factory figures for 1/4 mile times in the 931 so obviously I'm down on power, however I can't work out where. I've checked CIS, replaced all vacuum hoses and checked leaks, exhaust tight, replaced fuel filters, injectors. My engine has never been rebuilt and has about 250k kms, plan to do compression tests and also check exhaust 02 levels over the next few months.
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CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 1975
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, with some small uppgrades to alignment/tyres/suspension your car should be quick enough to pass most of the 80s stuff(although it takes some driver skill, so practise is much more Worth than uppgrades). Check my youtube channel if you want to see how [cedricnyberg]
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Grenadiers  



Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 3222
Location: Nelson, WI & Prescott, AZ

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was in a similar situation with my old 911, tracked the car twice. I spent more time trying to stay in the factory seat than driving fast! Out of the box as a track car the 911 is better, however, adding the mods to take advantage of either car is much cheaper on a 931. So, that's the route I took with my CGT clone. Happy I went that route, and passing SCs is very doable. I run DE2 with NASA for now, and they usually combine 2 with 1. You then get to pass much newer cars! Until, the driver, being lead by an instructor, starts learning the track, the car, and himself!

As far as reliability, I think the 931 can last a long time. My crank pulley bolt problem was my fault. I had the 36-1 wheel in front of the pulley, hiding the bolt. ooops. Fixed that.

Heading down to Phoenix for another NASA DE event this weekend, 2 hours and 40 minutes of track time over a two day period. The WOT issue I had last month is fixed, so, this is it! Everything I've done, some twice, hopefully should pay off, first time evar~! Should be fun as a fan as well, combined racing with SCCA and NASA's Honda series, 944Spec, and big bore 'merican iron! One only needs to attend an event or two like this and pay attention to the cars if you want to find one that fits
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bear924  



Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 73
Location: South West Queensland, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello all,

Agree that I have lots of learning regarding track driving, however Grenadiers description of driving his 911 certainly reminds me of my track days (I get sore knees )

Your posts have encouraged me to start tweaking my car towards a stronger track orientation, once I work out a draft plan I'll start a new thread and you are all welcome to tell me where I'm wrong.

Keep up the good posting, always enjoy having a read on this board.
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