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Project black 924 :)
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GeorgeV  



Joined: 14 Mar 2010
Posts: 304
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DutchPug wrote:

The result on 1.2 bar; 274 whp and 354 "w" nm.

A great result! I'm looking forward to switching to E85.
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1981 932 with mods:
http://www.924board.org/viewtopic.php?t=37921
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931 twinturbo  



Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 117
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any News???

Can you post video off Your car??

Great Project by the way.... Interesting thread to follow!!!!!
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911 Targa 1974 Turbolook/Outlaw
964 C2 1992mod
924 Carrera GTS Look(Project)
924Na stock 1982Mod
*911S Targa slantnose 1975mod
*924Na 1977Mod Carrera GT kit
*944NA Type 1 1984Mod
*924 Turbo Serie2 1980mod
*924 Turbo Serie2 1980Mod
*924NA 1982Mod
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DutchPug  



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 94
Location: the Netherlands

PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks 931TT

Have been enjoying the car a lot the past few months, drove over 4000 km . Am worried most about the gearbox... but, it has managed to hold up... so far.

Did have issues with the metal supporting the pedal mechanism. The excessive pedal pressure needed to operate the clutch made big cracks in the plate below the wiper motor. (to give an idea plastic part of the clutch cable broke instantly; made a metal one. The bolt holding the pedals became banana shaped and the pedal support structure basically came off the car). Have modified the pedal mechansim, pedal and welded a big 3mm thick plate in that area.... seems to be doing a lot better now and pedal pressure needed is just a bit more than stock.

I plan to put in the new cam, springs, retainers, lifters and rod bolds before April/May.

Am not really into making videos... perhaps i'll give a try sometime.
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DutchPug  



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 94
Location: the Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Small update

Thought it was a good idea to give the head a service and install a fresh headgasket for things to come. The results were quite good; 12whp extra @0.8 bar of boost pressure .

Upped the maximum pressure from 1.2 to 1.5 bar; 307 whp and 380 wnm. (Around 350 engine hp and 435 nm)

Next step, cam, springs, lifters and rod bolts.
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8232
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i guess its fast, isnt it?

DutchPug wrote:
Small update

Thought it was a good idea to give the head a service and install a fresh headgasket for things to come. The results were quite good; 12whp extra @0.8 bar of boost pressure .

Upped the maximum pressure from 1.2 to 1.5 bar; 307 whp and 380 wnm. (Around 350 engine hp and 435 nm)

Next step, cam, springs, lifters and rod bolts.

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WEASEL149  



Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 595
Location: UK, Sheffield

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome figures

I really wish I could get hold of E85 over here easily

I'm hoping to achieve 300hp+ from the Holset at 1.5bar but I'll be limited to 99RON and possibly water injection at high boost, although my CR will be lower than yours.

Keep up the good work, it really helps inspire others.
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DutchPug  



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 94
Location: the Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Morghen

It is very quick for a 924, but, think it needs another 100 hp to give me the feeling it is silly quick.. for a 924.


@ Weasel

Tnx . You are right, E85 is like magic for these kind of applications.
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WEASEL149  



Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Posts: 595
Location: UK, Sheffield

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DutchPug wrote:
It is very quick for a 924, but, think it needs another 100 hp to give me the feeling it is silly quick.. for a 924.


I like your style

Most people seem to think 300hp+ is unmanageable on these cars but I agree that the sky is the limit - it just needs sensible, practical application like yourself and Raceboy have shown
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DutchPug  



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 94
Location: the Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sky the limit... well in the end it is an old 2v cilinder engine... but why not try to make the most of it


Perhaps interesting to see; whp versus exhaust back pressure (boost pressure is ramped from 1.0 bar to 1.5);

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gegge  



Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 1085
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have a graph with manifoldpressure vs backpressure?

EDIT: If I read and understand the graph above correct, the maximum backpressure is 300KPa running 1,5bar of boost? 300KPa equals 3bar.
Dont expect a major increase of power with a cam with more overlap.
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Carl Fredrik Torkildsen

924 turbo -81 Carrera GT RESTOMOD
924 turbo -80 Dolomite De Luxe
924 -85 DP kit, BBS RS, M030 and tuned engine
924s -86 Black on black turbo with Fuchs
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CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 2023
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really impressive results once again, will be interesting to see what will brake first Do you plan on track driving it or is it just a street car?

Gegge, its not only static backpressure that dictates ammount of residuals and gas exhange performance. You would ideally want to have crank angle resolved backpressure close to the port to see that. Do you have pulse separated turbine and ex.manifold? That could help alot. But sure, backpressure wont make life easy.
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DutchPug  



Joined: 27 Jul 2008
Posts: 94
Location: the Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ CÚdric

Yes am curious what goes first too. My guess is the gearbox, it is not showing any signs of a accident waiting to happen yet... even though i am shifting it as quickly as i can and apply full power. Fingers crossed.

It is a street car, but will give a 1/4 event a try this year. Don't think the engine will last very long with this power doing track driving.

Single entry turbo.


@ Gegge,

Did not log manifold pressure on the dyno. Only logged back pressure on the dyno because i did not make time yet to attach the sensor to the management system.

The dyno back pressure measurement (blue line). Up to 1.1-1.2 bar boost pressure the back pressure was lower than the intake pressure. At 1.5 bar intake pressure the back pressure is about 1.6 bar.

Was hoping the back pressure would have been a bit lower.

Coolant system pressure was 0.3 bar. So far it has been the same, independent of the power output... let's hope that says the same too haha.

The cam i have has less overlap its a dedicated turbo cam. Have had very good results with other turbo engine running Catcams cams.
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gegge  



Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 1085
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crankangle resolution dynamic pressure testing is very expensive as you already know. The conclution is often that short small volume exhaust manifolds like 931 tend to generate larger spikes and need a larger turbine compared to longer large volume like the modded 924. The limiting factor is usually not A/R or nozzle area but the exducer diameter when it comes to static backpressure. Stock K26 is 55mm and large by all standards. The GT3071R is 53mm?

My bad, I read the green line by mistake. 1.6bar isn't bad. A hotter cam wouldn't be a problem as I see it. Of course will the scavenge during overlap be limited, but at least the reverse flow is close to zero. Could be that the output at 1.2bar is close to 1.5bar with the new cam when p2/p3 is positive.

I think this is jawdropping numbers from a 924. Impressive and absolutly stunning! Keep them coming
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Carl Fredrik Torkildsen

924 turbo -81 Carrera GT RESTOMOD
924 turbo -80 Dolomite De Luxe
924 -85 DP kit, BBS RS, M030 and tuned engine
924s -86 Black on black turbo with Fuchs
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CÚdric  



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 2023
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you thought about gear box cooling, the 951a probably had it for a good reason But on the other hand, if you arent doing any longer runs it wont build much heat either..

Have you logged engine oil temps?

Impressive that the car still holds up!
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GeorgeV  



Joined: 14 Mar 2010
Posts: 304
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DutchPug wrote:

Upped the maximum pressure from 1.2 to 1.5 bar; 307 whp and 380 wnm. (Around 350 engine hp and 435 nm)

and the horsepower just keeps on rising!
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