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Pikes Peak Hill climb:

 
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MikeDanger  



Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 495
Location: Denver

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:12 pm    Post subject: Pikes Peak Hill climb: Reply with quote

So id like to build my 80 in to a "play thing" Id like to use it to do fun evens such as the targa newfoundland and Pikes peak Hill climb.

But one of the main issues is the motor. I have contemplated the audi 5cyl 20v motor. (and also others such as the Mitsu evo motors or the like) I would like to keep with a "similar" motor, dont want the Cheby v8 route. So, I looked at the rule for the PPIHC, and is says :
2. Engine/Transmission - Engine modifications are free as long as it is derived from the chassis manufacturer. Transmissions are open.

How would you interpert that?? Because the audi motor IS from the Chassis MFG.

Just as a 914 has a "VW" motor. (I mean, you could argue, that a 914-6, DOESN'T have an engine from the chassis MFG!)


does anyone know how this my apply to other events?
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8199
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say that you're allowed to use any Porsche engine.

The 924 might have some Audi/VW stamps on the engine but the fact is that the fuel injected, 9.5:1 CR, 2.0L 125HP or whatever you guys have in USA engine was never fitted on any Audi or VW and it was engineered by Porsche.

It is true that the block is very similar, close to identical to a block used in a VW VAN but the engine numbers used in the 924 are strictly for the Porsche 924 and not for the VW/Audi.

So the way i see it, you can turbocharge the hell out of a 2.0L engine, or get a 2.5 turbo, or get a 3L and turbocharge that.
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
Posts: 15506
Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Build a cheap ass stroker with 8.5:1 CR pistons, and install a dual stage twin charged setup. Use a positive displacement supercharger for the first stage to provide ~6psi boost from idle to 3500 RPM, then have a k27 cold side mounted to our K26 hot side (6.10 if you can get one) to take over from 6PSI/3500RPM up to redline (use a one way valve and allow the super charger to blow-off/free-spool above 3500 RPM).

Use a 931 head with big valves. You could even run a dual stage intercooler. Use the 951 FMIC to intercool the supercharged air, and a CGT-style TMIC for the turbo. Most direct path possible, and you'll have full boost from idle to redline. Lots of torque too, which I suspect you will want for the hill climb. Get a G31 with LSD. Put in the Euro-spec R&P and 5th gear set so you have shorter ratios, you won't need the top-end speed from the taller US gearing.

I have gotten the Club Sport out for its first real thrashings this week and I can tell you I am very excited to see what power this thing is making. The butt dyno says the 2.2L turbo-charged stroker is fffffaaaaaasssssssttttttttttttttt! I haven't even turned up the boost yet, just running stock US-spec (6-7 psi).
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MikeDanger  



Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 495
Location: Denver

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The audi 5 is a 4v per cyl engine, and if I was to do a race build on that, it would make more power with similar tuning. and I wouldnt bother with a lame kkk turbo, Needs a BB turbo.

The PPIHC, needs AT LEAST 400hp, 500 is better.


But that doesn't answer my question.
The Motor is an AUDI/VW motor, any way you slice it. and the chasis is build by audi. lets not forget it was meant to be a VW in the first place!


Just as you could put a Chevy motor into pontiac. and no one would care.
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
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Location: Romania

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it was meant to be at the begining..but then porsche made it into the porsche 924..anyway you cut it...the chassis was not built by audi
even the VIN numbers say WWPO and not WWAU.
The engine is the same business.
But if the guys with the rules in your competition are dumb asses i guess you could easly trick them and trash the 924's name once again..

However...why not buy an audi 90 coupe and use that nifty 5 cyl engine as its meant to be used?
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FJ40Jim  



Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 26
Location: Central Ohio, USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wasn't the 924 built by Audi employees in the Audi factory at Neckarsulm?

And then production was eventually moved to the porsche factory at weissach sometime in the 944 years?
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ideola  



Joined: 01 Oct 2004
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Location: Woodstock IL

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:50 am    Post subject: Re: Pikes Peak Hill climb: Reply with quote

MikeDanger wrote:
as long as it is derived from the chassis manufacturer


This is the central issue...how is that interpreted? Is the manufacturer considered to be the organization that commissioned the manufacture of the chassis and subsequently sold the vehicle? Or could it be interpreted that the organization who actually built the chassis (regardless of who commissioned or sold it) is the manufacturer?

Have you asked anyone at the sanctioning body to clarify what this means???? I mean, it can't be that hard to ask, can it?

Either that or you can take the "beg forgiveness" route and hope nobody challenges your build after sinking blood, sweat, tears, time and money into it.
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 8199
Location: Romania

PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FJ40Jim wrote:
Wasn't the 924 built by Audi employees in the Audi factory at Neckarsulm?

And then production was eventually moved to the porsche factory at weissach sometime in the 944 years?


Me and my buddies made seatbelt and steering wheel design(within our employing company) for some modern porsches in Romania, those parts are also produced and assembled in Romania, does that mean that the modern Porsches are Dacias?
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MikeDanger  



Joined: 21 Nov 2002
Posts: 495
Location: Denver

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if you look at the block its clearly stamped with both the wv and Audi stamp, unlike the 944. So, what's one Audi block vs another?
But also you could race a 356/912/914 which CLEARLY have VW motors, and the "chassis mfg" rule wouldn't exactly fit would it?

Also let not forget the Audi+porsche on most of the race cars of this era, besides wv/Audi/porsche have always been family practically, much like GM.
And few people would argue putting a SBC in to any GM product.


And then again, how closely are they going to look? Open the hood and you see a straight motor with a turbo; good enough. much like the Spanish Inquisition, no one expects an i5!
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morghen  



Joined: 21 Jan 2005
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Location: Romania

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeDanger wrote:
Well if you look at the block its clearly stamped with both the wv and Audi stamp, unlike the 944. So, what's one Audi block vs another?

And then again, how closely are they going to look? Open the hood and you see a straight motor with a turbo; good enough. much like the Spanish Inquisition, no one expects an i5!


Yea, the production vw/audi stamp is there on the 924, is there a production Porsche stamp on the 944?

When i go to the bi-anual inspection they look for the engine and chassis numbers, not the stamps.
Do you think the stamp makes so much difference? If the rules say the stamp does...then you're in luck and you can swap any vw/audi/porsche engine you wish.

As for how closely they will look...it all depends on who is looking.
Take a big boobed blonde and she wont tell any difference.
But i bet that if you had the 924 lump and any other lump side by side you could tell the difference quite easy.

On the other hand, a well done i5 turbo engine swap on the 924 would be nice to see.
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