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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 11724 Location: PacNW
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:53 am Post subject: UT-CIS Sticky |
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As we now hav several of these units running, with more to come, it seems appropriate to start a thread for install tips, engine maps, and the like. So here it is! _________________ Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 11724 Location: PacNW
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:56 am Post subject: |
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My Initial Impressions:
First, the UTCIS unit arrived with the temp sensor chip dangling off the valve body. I reattached it with a piece of thermal tape designed for computer heat sinks, as it probably should have been attached by them. Boo!
Second, the unit arrived with a faulty internal component that could have burned the car to the ground. Boo!
Third, according to the monitoriing software, the unit is NOT adjusting control pressure (i.e., the "Current" and "Target" control pressures are NOT the same). Boo!
Clicky:
Fourth, the unit is not monitoring RPM at all. . .it always shows 1000. Boo!
And fifth, it is a bitch to get these guys on the phone.
Now, having said all that, the motor is running perfectly so far. It fires immediately with a nudge of key, hot or cold. It idles, and cruises at around stoich. Under load, it enriches nicely to around 12. Frankly, though, I have no idea whether the UTCIS unit is doing anything.
Not the experience I expected after plunking down enough dough for an EFI setup, but I am still optimistic that I can get it dialed in. _________________ Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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gegge
Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 1124 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:49 am Post subject: |
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How does your fuelmap look like?
Stock WUR is 3,3bar and down to 2,6 something when then the turbo is charging. The Unwired guy had a 3bar flat or was it richer under load? _________________ Carl Fredrik Torkildsen
924 turbo -81 Carrera GT RESTOMOD
924 turbo -80 Dolomite De Luxe
924 -85 DP kit, BBS RS, M030 and tuned engine
924s -86 Black on black turbo with Fuchs |
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 11724 Location: PacNW
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:49 am Post subject: |
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The map that came preloaded with my unit is 3.5 across the board, with boost enrichment (kicks in at .6 BAR, and moves control pressure to a minimum of 2.6 at 1.3 BAR). _________________ Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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stevekat
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 719 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:24 am Post subject: |
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That sounds about right. Mine originally came loaded with a 930 map by accident. The curve works differently. BTW, I find (I think) that the warm up cycle is bothersome, in that it is timed rather than temp driven. Maybe it is just the idiosyncrasies of my car, but I sense it is the UTCIS is warm up cycle - with no way to bypass since I believe it is timed. _________________ "Never get out of the boat. Absolutely goddamn right. Unless you are goin' all the way."
Gone to new home: '81 924T, US version, CGT Intercooler, UTCIS-PT, Euro DITC, Greddy Trust MBC, Forged Fuchs Flat Dish 6's, Factory Recaro's. |
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924RACR
Joined: 29 Jul 2001 Posts: 8815 Location: Royal Oak, MI, USA
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Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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Might as well make it official! Here's yer sticky... _________________ Vaughan Scott
Webmeister
'79 924 #77 SCCA H Prod racecar
'82 931 Plat. Silver
#25 Hidari Firefly P2 sports prototype |
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 11724 Location: PacNW
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Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 1:28 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, Vaughan. _________________ Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15548 Location: Spring Lake MI
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Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:42 am Post subject: |
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I have a question I've been thinking about since I ordered and received my UT-CIS.
Since these units have adjustable control pressure, I'm not clear on the interplay between the control pressure map, the pressure set at the fuel distributor, and the enrichment adjustment on the fuel distributor. The UT instructions say to make sure your CIS is in good operational condition, but there's not much else in the way of discussion regarding the interaction between these three variables. It seems like you could end up having the control pressure adjustment and the stock enrichment/enleanment adjustment fighting each other. Wondering if there are any comments from those that have already installed the UT-CIS. _________________ erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 11724 Location: PacNW
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Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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What are you calling "fuel enrichment on the fuel distributor?" If you are referring to the mixture screw, this adjustment essentially sets the baseline of a static curve.
Without the intervention of the CPR, the dizzy delivers X fuel pressure in response to Y flow through the AFM. In our case, that pressure really translates into Z quantity of fuel/time, since our injectors are always open. So, a certain metering plate height always corresponds to a certain volume of fuel delivery, and that ratio is set by the carefully engineered shape of the bowl in which the plate rises (or, in a 931, falls). In this sense, the dizzy performs no "enrichment" outside its normal curve.
Under boost, the stock CPR lowers the control pressure, which increases fuel delivery by decreasing resistance to the movement of the metering plate, allowing it to move further with the same amount of ariflow. The UTCIS unit does the same, but can also manage the enrichment curve according to RPM, and not just MAP.
So, there is really no potential for an enrichment battle between the stock and UTCIS systems.
The wrinkle, of course, is the frequency valve on US cars. At idle, the FV responds to the lambda computer to make fine adjustments to attain a target AFR, but the adjustment is VERY fine, and depends entirely on an accurately set idle mixture to have any effect (this can be observed by adjusting the idle mixture out of spec with a dwell meter attached to the lambda diagnostic port. . .you don't have to go very far for the FV to "give up" and drop to open loop). The FV also acts to provide extra enrichment at WOT, but again the margin of enrichment is very small, and you'll compesnate for it as you log your AFMs and make fine adjustments to control pressure via the UTCIS software. _________________ Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
Last edited by Rasta Monsta on Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:05 am; edited 2 times in total |
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15548 Location: Spring Lake MI
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Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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Rasta Monsta wrote: | What are you calling "fuel enrichment on the fuel distributor?" If you are referring to the mixture screw, this adjustment essentially sets the baseline of a static curve. |
Yes, I was referring to the static enrichment or enleanment of the overall mixture set by the mixture screw.
Thanks for the explanation. _________________ erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 11724 Location: PacNW
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Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:08 am Post subject: |
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I read it over, like ten times. . .hope it makes sense and that you found it helpful. _________________ Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15548 Location: Spring Lake MI
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Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:17 am Post subject: |
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Rasta Monsta wrote: | I read it over, like ten times. . .hope it makes sense and that you found it helpful. |
I did find it useful...
I guess what I was thinking when I posed the question is that if you don't know what the baseline is on the CIS setup (there are so many things that could be out of whack), the base map provided by UT could either over or under fuel, and you could end up adjusting things in the map, when the real problem needs to be addressed elsewhere. Sort of like your fuel dizzy issue.
I'm still struggling to understand why my 941 is running so rich when CIS pressures check out. I have it set at 14:1 at idle, but it goes fatter than 10:1 at WOT, and even at cruise is running at 11:1. Way too rich at everything but idle. It seems like maybe the WOT enrichment function of the stock WUR is dropping control pressure too much, so my thinking was to put the UT-CIS in rather than rebuilding the stock WUR. But I'm not sure, and I don't want to introduce more variables until I have a better idea what's going on with the stock setup.
I just replaced the injectors with a set of four that were all cleaned and tested within 10% tolerance, so that variable is eliminated. I think my next step is to find out exactly which WUR, fuel dizzy, and AFM I have on the car. I'm pretty sure it's an S1 WUR, but need to double check, and I don't recall which AFM it has. I also don't know for sure what pistons are in the car...I know I have an M31.04 block, and an S1 turbo, but I don't know for sure about the pistons. _________________ erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 11724 Location: PacNW
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Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:10 am Post subject: |
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Maybe you should try the control circuit volume test in FSM. . .quick and easy, and can reveal dizzy woes.
Also, the metering head can leak internally (around the piston and into the AFM body), which would make you run fat but would not effect control or system pressure. _________________ Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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ideola
Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 15548 Location: Spring Lake MI
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Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:22 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I really need to find a good long weekend when I can run everything through a complete battery of tests. I've had so much travel lately, plus with the five lug swap on SONIC, and other typical around-home crap, just haven't had time to really focus in on this one particular problem.
When you say metering head, are you referring to the fuel distributor itself, or is that a component on the AFM? _________________ erstwhile owner of just about every 924 variant ever made |
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Rasta Monsta
Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 11724 Location: PacNW
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Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:02 am Post subject: |
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The dizzy. If you remove it, don't forget to order up the rubber sealing ring that goes between it and the AFM. _________________ Toofah King Bad
- WeiBe (1987 924S 2.5t) - 931 S3
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